On my birthday last month, Tara gave me the gift of knowing what we’re having… a boy or a girl. I took a short video of the event, which you may watch here.
At Temple Square, LDS were continuing to tell me that they simply believe the LDS Church is true when asked why they believed it. They merely chose it, and would say nothing more. Usually they play the burning in the bosom card, but most of them wouldn’t even claim that. So I told them, “You could be headed for hell, and it makes no difference to you, because you simply choose to be Mormon.” They didn’t care what the Bible said about always being ready to give a reason for their faith (1 Pt. 3:15). They just mindlessly bought Mormonism hook, line, and sinker, and didn’t even care about whether it was true or not. They were happy, and that’s all that mattered to them. One Mormon came up to me as I was talking to a lady, and said that he rebuked me in the name of Jesus. I told him it made no difference to me, since his Jesus was false.
Despite the hard ground, I noticed lots of people looking at my MormonInfo.org/JosephLied.com sign as they went by. The following morning in my scripture memorization, the next verse was Ps. 60:4: "Thou has prepared a banner to them that fear thee, that it may be displayed because of the truth."
COPPER HILLS HIGH SCHOOL
There was a lot more action at Copper Hills High School--one of our neighborhood high schools. One agnostic guy let me pray for him after I got done sharing with him. He seemed a little choked up about it. I also got out a good handful of "Jesus Christ/Joseph Smith" DVDs! The crossing guard told one student it was trash, and both crossing guards told the cop to come talk to me. (The one who said the DVD was trash asked me to go to the other side of the street!) I told the cop that I know the drill, that I've been there before a couple other times, and never had a problem. I had no desire to impede traffic. Later, one of the crossing guards started to laugh when she heard me tell a student that one of the LDS general authorities admitted LDS are leaving in droves. So I documented it for her, and told her to look it up.
Outside Copper Hills
I also talked to a supportive Christian guy, who used to go to our church's youth group and knows my daughter Maddi. Another friend of Maddi’s took the above picture of me, and texted her asking if this was her dad. And another student from the neighborhood texted her after seeing me, and told her I was a &*^%! Maddi simply told her that she was proud of me and that he should read his Bible!
After the high schoolers had left, I got to hit up all the jr. highers who walked by me. I ended by talking with one LDS jr. high gal, who started laughing with exaggeration at me when I started telling her what LDS really believe about God/Jesus. She quickly shut up when I showed her the quotes.
Last month was very busy month at MormonInfo.org. We averaged 231 visits per day!
Last month while visiting my brother, he arranged for a couple Jehovah’s Witness gals to come and talk with us. It was quite a contrast from the other month when I talked to another couple JW gals across the street from my home. This time we had a good, long conversation. I was really surprised how open these gals were as I walked through the verses on my JWinfo.org with them. I showed them my site on a laptop, and they even took the literature my brother gave them! That almost never happens. We cleared up some misconceptions they had about our understanding of the Trinity, and explained to them how they were devaluing Jesus by making Him the first and greatest creation of Jehovah. They certainly have lots to think about.
Jason Oakes shares at our bbq
We hosted a couple ministry dinners as well. The first was our Ex-Mormon Meetup, where a gal from our church shared her story. You may read Cassie’s testimony here and see the pictures here. The second was for Jason Oakes and his family with some doing ministry here in the Salt Lake City area. Jason is from California, but is planning on moving to Utah to church plant someday.
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I say goodonyuh for doing that at temple square during conference weekend! It is incredibly refreshing to me that you are bold enough to take a stand for Jesus and tell the truth about that criminal! Sometimes all anyone needs is one person to do what you do and that gives countless others the same courage. You go Rob :-) You go Tara for supporting him and doing the same thing.
I am a born again follower of Christ, and I have not been very successful in evangelizing to mormons. I started out with a friend, trying to convince her first that we are not the same religion, by pointing out the contradictions between the book of Mormon, and the Bible. But my pastor recently informed me that mormons don't even believe the Bible is accurate, so that might not be the beat method.
A Mormon just came to the Christian bible study we hold on my college campus, and I want to know how to properly evangelize to her, with out it just turning into a big mess. I typically use the law, to show we need a savings, through The holy spirit's (ghost's) conviction, when evangelizing to people, but I'm unsure how that will work with a Mormon.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Btw, I read a few of your posts, are you guys Arizona based?
[I replied:] Well typically in a 1 on 1 situation, it is messy, and that can be a good or bad thing. It's bad when you don't know what you're doing and if you come across angry, frustrated, or hateful. It's a good thing when you know what you're doing and come across as patient and respectful. The good messiness comes simply on the LDS part when they get angry, frustrated, or hateful. If that happens, don't give up. Know that you're doing what you're supposed to do in challenging them, and deconstructing (deprogramming) their thought-process just takes a while. If you're frustrated, don't show it (and get over, since they're blind after all), but know that they'll obviously be frustrated and uncomfortable with this deconstruction.
Here's what I recommend. 1) Ask LDS why they think what they believe is true. Start challenging their authority, which is their feelings. Use all the Bible passages you'd like to demonstrate the problems here, especially 2 Thes. 2:11. See here. 2) Ask LDS why they'd believe the Book of Mormon story that the Bible has been corrupted when we have all sorts of good evidence that it hasn't been. See here. 3) Once you've established the authority of the Bible, then start showing LDS how different their God is from the God of the Bible. Start going down the list on my Home page chart of differences on www.MormonInfo.org. You may also find [this] helpful.
We're in West Jordan, UT.
…Hope this helps!
[He replied:] Thank you very much! I will read over those links, and let you know how it goes when I get my next opportunity. After 3, do I go into the gospel?
[I replied:] Yes, you'll see if your LDS friend is even open to God after that point. If so, by all means present the gospel and tell them they need to repent of Mormonism to be saved. But I'm assuming that 3 includes that, since you'll see those differences of gospel in my Home page chart.
I have been watching the ex-mormon ad videos and have mixed feelings. I want your opinion on them.
For example, I really, really like this story... It's probably one of the better ones.... until the end part.... It seems this guy has unraveled the mystery of mormon lies but only to evolve into another lie. This seems so typical of most these exmormon stories. Now in his experience, the lie of lds is not being believed, but instead, it got traded for another gospel, another lie...... Where are the Christians? The believers who have come out of mormonism?
So while these stories are poignant and truthful and do hold much good... the trade off is baal for belial or baalzebub... It feels like an endorsement/validation out of the lds church into another false belief system... one of the flesh. I wonder if the producer of these exmormon videos is indeed a born again child of the Most High?
The good news is, God can use and does often use opposition to His end. I pray it will all go to His end and His children are called out as soon as possible. The Bible speaks of such.
My question then is, what is your opinion on these stories? And, why can't we get exmormon Christian Believers, real believers, sharing their stories? Out of watching about 15, I've yet to see one, ONE!, ending with a true believer!
Here's what causes me such grief... I have a wonderful lds friend who is considering the truth and extricating herself from mormon deception. I wanted to share Chris' story, as it deals with the process of coming out very well... all until he denied the existence of satan, which is like denying the existence of All Mighty God who says to fear Him. ...And because he mentions science over God... It is a sadness I feel as many lose so much after erupting from such a big mormon lie just to be seized upon by another lie. I realize God is not done with these folks and I pray these people will come to know their Savior.
In the meantime, can we underestimate the impact these conclusions, exmormons share as their new truth, are having on others. I know I can't in good conscience share Chris' story with Ann... it will provide more steps to devastation in my opinion, leading to bigger lies.
Thanks for listening. I'm curious what your thoughts are.
[I replied:] Of course most of the people who leave Mormonism go into agnosticism or atheism. That's where our Meetup provides a real alternative. Further, just spend time reading all the stories of believers who have left Mormonism here. This is what you ought to pass onto your friend.
[She replied:] Ok Rob...... thanks.
Really? I didn't know MOST went away from God! What percent would you say? Isn't that kind of like the verse that talks about casting out the 1 devil and 7 more come to take it's place? Still, I guess it's a chance......... and God knows His children. It's still very sad to me. Thanks for your thoughts I'll look at these other testimonies.
[I replied:] I don't know. If I had to guess probably 60 to 70%. It really shouldn't surprise you. When you've been drilled in your head your whole life that you belong to the only true church, and then you find out it's not true, well, the tendency is once bitten twice shy. Plus, most of the world goes to hell anyway according to Jesus in Mat. 7, so it would figure that most people who come out of Mormonism don't come to Christ.
God bless you Rob and your family. You're in a difficult ministry and I know that everyone comes down on Christians who say anything.
I have some friends that are LDS. They are an older deaf couple that I have known for a while now, and the husband… is dying of cancer. I feel convicted to witness to them, but I'm not sure how. I started a conversation with the wife… via facebook, just to see what their belief was, and feigned lack of knowledge of the LDS church. The conversation went as follows:
* I keep meaning to ask, where do you and mike go to church? I know he told me before, but I don remember...
* Hello. We go to " The church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints
* We are Lutheran. I don't know about LDS, do you believe in Trinity (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) and Christ as Savior?
* Yes,we do.. someday u can visit our church ♥
In retrospect I should have worded my questions a little differently. I was surprised by her answer about the Trinity. I didn't realize that the mormons have "trinity" of sorts, so that was a new thing for me. I know I've opened a door, but I'm not sure where to go from here, or how to persue this. I know I have to tred lightly as mormonism is a very tough nut to crack and I don't want to deafen their spirit by coming across too strong. I know this could mean the loss of a friendship, but if it also means the potential to save them I'm okay with that. I know I may not be the one to turn their hearts to the true God, but I can be the one to plant the seed, I just don't know how to go about it.
[I replied:] Please see my Home page chart of differences at MormonInfo.org as well as my tract. Their Trinity is 3 separate Gods who are only 1 in purpose and their nature, not their being. I wouldn't worry about deafening their spirit, since it's already that way. Especially since he's dying, he needs to be challenged before it's too late. I'd write back and tell her that you did a little research, and ask her if what I just said is true. Then when she confirms that, you need to tell her that you're concerned she's following a false God and that has eternal consequences (e.g., Jn. 17:3). Then give her the verses that I gave on MormonInfo.org. Then ask her what she thinks of those. Let me know how it goes, and if you have further questions.
[In referring to my last newsletter:] “It’s always disheartening for me to hear other Christians smack-down our ministry”. I do not want a reply back but I find this first sentence very interesting because this is exactly what you’re trying to do the Mormon church. Advice . . . you may want to change this because you appear to be 100% hypocritical.
[I replied:] Of course that would be true if the Mormon Church was a "Christian" Church. That's why all Christian denominations (Catholic, Protestant, and Orthodox) regard Mormonism as a non-Christian cult.
[He replied:] I guess I have a warped sense of curiosity . . . what do you mean by “Christian”. Are you saying that the Mormon church do not believe in Christ? What is your interpretation of “Christian” . . . just curious?
[I replied:] A Christian is a follower of Christ, not of a false Christ, which Jesus Himself warned in Mat. 24:24. My interpretation of that is the same as has been taught for 2,000 years now by the Christian Church in all its various denominations (Catholic, Protestant, and Orthodox). To see how that varies from what the LDS Church teaches, then please see the Home page chart of differences at www.MormonInfo.org.
Sending a humble gift. Please don't worry about comments directed at MormonInfo that were made on Heart of the Matter show. Shawn means well. You have to remember he was Mormon once and grew up Mormon and spent 41 years as a Mormon. I met Shawn and every day is a victory for Shawn and HOTM. Shawn was born into a Mormon family. I got to grow up in a city that bordered a large state university and had numerous large houses of worship representing multiple denominations downtown.
I had incredible freedom. I realize that now. Shawn grew up Mormon and is going to be very passionate about what he feels is going to work when reaching out to people of the Mormon faith. I believe we need a variety of ministries. One can provide a facet to the diamond that could reach
Mormons with the truth. Where one ministry lacks a resource, another could provide.
Mormonism teaches salvation by works. It seems harmless and many cite good qualities about Mormons. They send out many missionaries. They have clean beautiful homes. They don't smoke. They have beautiful temples. Yet Salvation by works doctrine is a dangerous mind game that harms people.
…Thanks for helping ex-mormons. I know that is challenging Rob. There is a difference between
a never been mormon and an ex-mormon. I realize that now and that is why support ministries that
reach out to Mormons.
The New Testament tells us we are saved by grace.
One thing I’d note is that your ministry has more in common with what Shawn McCraney says than you note! Around the 17-minute mark, he says that the only thing that will work is an approach like that of the Tanners; namely, to document what “the top LDS leaders have officially said… and then you compare it to both what the Bible says and what Mormonism is saying they believe today.” You do that! It’s not as if you and your signs just say that Joseph Smith lied and leave it at that.
Even though I know Shawn and agree with him on most points, I've always thought he was a rather "loose cannon." After being involved in Mormon outreach ministry for over 40 years, I can say I believe is very wrong to criticize ANY ministry who stands against heresy, especially one dealing with the cults...and even more so dealing with Mormonism. We all have the various methods with which God has gifted us in reaching the lost. Including holding up a sign that says "Joseph Lied."
Keep doing what you're doing, and pray that folks like Shawn will come around.
welcome to the club... seems we get more flack at times from our "fellow-workers" than the ones to whom we minister. Let it go and just continue being all you have been called to be... sort of like playing with the fabled "tar-baby"
Thanks for keeping me updated with the CCU discussions. I find it very interesting that some people resort to name calling and personal attacks rather than logic. I enjoyed reading your responses - made sense to me!
For many years (many years), I've wondered in my mind about why the Biblical story of the fall has been so important to me. After having made so many bad choices and having lived so many years struggling with sinful thoughts and actions, I finally realized that the story of the fall was really the story of my personal life (in a way). And I have repented.
Deception, lies and false "testimony," does it really matter? It certainly does, and I've come to realize that deception may be a critical part of why we're alive, why we have been planted here. I think that if we follow a leader who has deceived himself, as well as others, then our spirits have not been able to develop into something that would have any value to our Creator. You know that I'm not a theologian, and I don't know what others might think of this idea, but trying to recognize deception seems critical to me and critical as far as whatever lies beyond the grave.
Your mission impresses me because it seems to me that you are devoted to trying to help others see the deception underlying the organizations that men such as Joseph Smith have created. Are we sheep being led to the slaughter, or have we been given some kind of blessing - that maybe we don't deserve? Bringing lost sheep to the Lord is something that, to me, could have no greater reward in the Kingdom, and I feel that reward will be yours. I will pray for you and your family.
God sees the heart, not Shawn McCraney. When we minister to others and speak truth, God's Word never returns void.
This saddens me that McCraney took a shot at you this way on his show, because so many do tune in and watch him. Please, please do not stop what the Lord has placed on your heart to do for His Kingdom. McCraney is doing what he can as a fellow believer in Jesus as I am on my own in my little spot on Facebook.
Jesus IS our Provider, Protector and only the Holy Spirit convicts those that come into a relationship with Him.
I do not see Mr McCraney as someone that would go as far as the … did in their personal attacks, but I am sad that he made this unnecessary comment regarding you without having to name names.
I, too, have a huge burden for the LDS people and love them, and lost good friends to them.
May be you can write or call Shawn (when you've prayed about it) and tell him you were offended by this.
We do NOT need this kind of in-fighting...our goal is God's goal!
I love what you do...I love what Shawn does, too. I also want to see McCraney invite people to know Jesus at the end of every show...that is very important.
With warmest love to you brother Rob,
Excellent ministry and of great faithfulness, Rob. Christians positioned by the Lord to defend and represent us tried to bury our work in Utah some years back, but they did not call us and we did not need their approval to press on. Shawn regretably has periods of counter-Christian comments. Hopefully he'll at least get over it about the signs. The great representatives of the Faith who had very visible campaigns against each other in the past are remembered for the harm they brought to the cause of Christ. Your letter was well-written and clarifies the matter. How obviously the Lord is using you in big ways. If he keeps going, don't feel obligated to defend yourself. The credibility speaks for itself.
I don't think Shawn intentionally meant to knock your ministry. He has admitted and apolozed to things that he has said that is incorrect. He is right though when people are downtown during conference holding up picket signs even with good intentions and trying to spread the truth. Mormons being the ignorant and arrogant people that they generally are will look at anyone with a picket sign or someone that is homeless and laugh or smirk and walk on by. Remember for Mormons image is everything. While they walk by in their best looking good and doing their hair just right they basically look down on those that don't dress or look as well as they do. They think those that are downtown with signs are sillly, out of touch or even insane. That is there opinion and I hope everyone that is there trying to share the truth doesn't get discouraged and keeps doing it. Mormons are fools and most don't have a clue about their doctrine or pick and choose what they want or is easy to accept and brush everything else under the table. These people are programmed to be the way they are and react to people that want to share the true gospel message. They don't want to have a dialogue with Christians and that's why they laugh and smirk at those that are there holding signs. I wouldn't let those fools discourage anyone that is trying to share the truth as hard as it might be for mormons to hear. If they are offended they can you know what.
[I replied:] Shawn already wrote me to tell me he wasn't intending to knock me. Bottom line is that he thinks signs don't "do much or work," and we just agree to disagree. It's because of all the good I see that I keep it up, and it has nothing to do with me being frustrated over Mormons not coming clean on what they really believe.
I'm still baffled at why Shawn, of all people would say such a thing, since he says negative things about Joseph Smith all the time.
You did a great job responding, however. I LOVE Belinda's testimony. I'm sure I've read it before, but it's always great to be reminded of how the Lord works (in spite of us).
I also love the photos of the White House & Billboard! Such creativity!
I saw this when you first posted it on face book. Not sure why Shawn McCraney would say that. I guess sometimes the enemy can get us working against each other. As long as you're "seasoning your words with salt", and not compromising the message of the gospel; then don't let anything slow you down. What your doing is very important, and I hope this only makes you more resolute.
Your ministry is in my prayers Rob, keep it up!
Here is my two cents: it bugs me when Christians criticize others because they think the approach is not effective. They assume that “being effective” means that a large number of people are being converted. This is a misguided measuring rod for effectiveness. It assumes that they know exactly why God led you to stand where you did and hold the sign you held. By this standard, Jeremiah was less effective than you. He did not have one recorded convert. But, Biblically speaking, he was completely effective because he followed the direction of the Lord. It was not God’s intention to convert the Jews back to him at that time, but to give them ample warning of the dangers ahead (Babylonian captivity).
I would love it if people accepted Christ every time I shared the gospel. But even though it rarely happens, I am still effective because I am being faithful to my God who called me to spread His word.