General Conference
 The first day of Conference, I preached to small crowds waiting to cross the street. I told them I loved them and God loves them. He wants them to know Smith failed every biblical test for being a prophet of God. I said, “1st–Smith taught other gods contrary to Deut. 13:1-5. 2nd–Smith made false prophecies contrary to Deut. 18:20-2. And 3rd–Smith can't be a prophet of God because he had a lot of bad fruit (Matt. 7). Jesus warned about false prophets, so you need to repent from following Smith.”
I was having a problem holding my sign in the wind. I told a lady in the crowd that the report said it should calm down later. One other guy was so bothered by my preaching, he said he wished the rain would come and sweep me down the drain. I told him that's not a loving thing to say. But I loved him enough to warn him. The light changed and he began mocking me as he walked off.
I briefly met two girls. One who wanted a picture with my sign is at the University of Utah and used to go to BYU Idaho. She was raised Christian but got into Mormonism. However, she recently left and is now going to Christian church. Her friend recently left the Church. We talked about how to approach her family by talking about 1 Pt. 3:1 and 15. Witnessing to family is quite a bit different from witnessing to strangers.
Immediately after talking to these girls, I talked to Angel and Kari, who were basically pagans. They wanted to know what my sign was about and what religion I am. I gave them my born-again experience testimony and a couple tracts.
Bryce talking to RobLater, I talked to Bryce for quite a while. He got excommunicated from the LDS Church for speaking out against his church misusing tithing. It’s been in the news quite a bit as of late. After his departure, Bryce went into the Community of Christ (CoC) and is now a Lutheran. He still was passionately defending Mormonism via Emma Smith, who denied Joseph was a polygamist 3 times. If you want to know what a husband is, consult the wife. I said that didn't work with Hillary denying Bill's philandering until the evidence was overwhelming. Bryce even acknowledged that both LDS and recently even CoC scholars acknowledged it. Bryce initially asked me what Smith lied about since I was holding my JosephLied.com sign, so I went into Smith claiming monogamy. Then I went into Smith’s translation of the Bible (the JST). Bryce was giving wild justifications particularly about how sometimes one story is told differently to different audiences. That's fine, but it won't work with contradictions. I told Bryce that all his justifications for Smith and the BM didn't matter, since the Bible is clear Smith didn’t pass the test. Bryce took my tract and DVD and took off.
Finally, I talked to Santiago from Indiana for just over an hour. He is a really smart and open LDS guy. He took my tract. We talked about all sorts of subjects.
The second day, I came at the end of the Conference. I preached to the masses as they exited. You can watch a short part of that HERE. An LDS guy came up to talk, and we must have talked for almost a couple hours! His name was Kip. He was a little antagonistic at first, but he wanted to read the whole chapter of Colossians 1 to understand the context of Jesus being the creator. As Kip read, the tenor of the conversation notably changed. I was able to help him see how his argument and understanding of Jesus being the “firstborn” ends up devaluing Jesus in the context. He also asked about the vision of Stephen in Acts 7. LDS use this passage to demonstrate that God the Father must be a man with flesh and bones as well, since the Son was standing on His right hand. I was able to help Bryce see how the right hand language here is figurative, since 1) if it’s literal, then the Son would be leaving imprints in His Father’s hand, and 2) the Bible uses this language similar to how we still use it today in talking of one having a preeminent role. We ended our time by me praying for him.
While talking to Kip, Kathryn came by. He’s the guy who pretends to be a woman and says he’s LDS. I told him that I still love him and continue to pray for him, but it’s obvious to me that he’s a dude, not a woman. He asked how I knew that and asked why other guys would like to dance with him. I told him it’s obvious what he is, and I don’t have to state criteria. The problem of the criterion is an infinite regress problem. If I give criteria, then one may always ask what the criteria is for accepting that criteria, etc., etc. He told me the story of one teen in the town that he lives being born with a vagina but began recently transitioning. She was continuing to get bullied and became suicidal. Her mom got a DNA test and it proved that she was XY after all. I responded that this is extremely rare, and it doesn’t fit with what’s going on with Kathryn. I also stated that if he was correct, then he’d be living in homosexuality with his wife. I brought this up because about a year ago, he indicated that he was married. Now he said he divorced 5 years ago. (I have noticed it’s difficult to get a straight story out of him.) He also said that what the LDS says is all that matters, and they recognize him as a her! So the Church is going along with this charade and mental illness!
Anyway, it was another productive evangelism time at Conference. I was also surprised at how many pieces of literature or DVDs I got out. It was probably a little over 50!
LDS Missionaries
Just had a rather unique experience at Walmart with 6 LDS missionaries. It's P-day (Preparation day), so they can usually be found there getting their shopping done. I politely greeted them, introduced myself to them, asked them where they're all from, and asked if any were converts. All had grown up in the Church. I then calmly asked them why they all think it's true when there's so much evidence against it. One guy asked if I read the Book of Mormon and prayed about it. I told him that I had. Another asked if Jesus appeared to me. I told them no, but He certainly spoke to my heart, and He told me it wasn't of Him.
Immediately the one leader got defensive and told me they needed to get shopping done and that I could reach out to the missionaries in my own neighborhood. I told them I live just next door. The one guy said, "Well we aren't from around here."
I asked if he's read the Bible. He said multiple times. So as they were moving away from me, I told them then they should know that God never had to become a God by following a God before Him and that they would never become their own Gods as Joseph Smith taught. The one guy was so nervous that as he was pushing the cart, he ran into some rack!
I could tell they were done with me, so as I was walking to the checkout, I told them, "Look, I love you guys, and someone has to tell you the truth before it's too late. Please check out my website sometime." The one guy immediately said, "No thanks." But I told them a couple times: "JosephLied.com." I looked intently at each of them as I said it.
I went to check out, then I went out the back of the store. As I was leaving, the guys crossed my path again. So I told them one last time, "Please, it's important for you guys to know the truth." The one guy rudely said, "Just go home!" So I told them again, "JosephLied.com."
Please pray with me that at least one of these guys will go check the site out sometime and get saved. I can’t recall missionaries ever acting this rudely to me before.
Someone on my Facebook page challenged my approach with them. You may see that exchange below in the Mailbag section.
MeetTheExMormons.org
Our friend “Bishop” Earl Erskine came to share his new book with us–”Fatal Flaws of the LDS Church.” Please watch his presentation and see the pictures at the URL above.
We Need Your Partnership
If you’re looking for ways to store up for yourself treasures in heaven (Matt. 6:19-20), may I suggest investing in our ministry? We not only need your prayers, but we need your financial partnership as well. Keep in mind that your investment is not simply for us, but for the lives of others we reach with the gospel. The standard way to financially invest is by writing a tax-deductible check to Courageous Christians United (CCU). For more information on various ways to invest in this ministry, including online giving, please see our “Invest” page on our sites. If you’re not a partner and are blessed by these monthly updates, please join our team and let us know soon. We’d love to be your missionaries here in Utah. Many thanks to those of you who hold us up in prayer and/or in your financial giving!
Be strong and courageous (Joshua 1:6)!
Rob Sivulka
President, Courageous Christians United
P.O. Box 1374
West Jordan, UT 84088
(801) 792-6373
MormonInfo.org
MeetTheExMormons.org
JWinfo.org
MuhammadLied.Info
AbortionIsMurder.Info
Mailbag
May I respectfully suggest this analogy: when talking to the poor owner of a beat-up car that he is told (lied to) is the last car on the planet, it isn't effective to tell him that he's driving an ugly piece of junk that's gonna end his life one day when the breaks give out. He already knows this, but he's gonna feel threatened by you and panic because he needs that car for survival, even if deep down he knows it isn't great, and he'll be offended and defensive about the one car that has taken him everywhere. Instead, suppose you show him another beautifully running car, and how much you love it. This will open his eyes more than anything- and if you tell him that you got it free, he'll reconsider that he's been lied to, because he now has some hope that there's something better. Then, driving his own junk car home, he'll be thinking about that other car. Tell them the good news, brother, instead of wrecking the one thing that they're told is the only thing. That's what you saw in their eyes. Fear of falling into nothingness, at a great loss. They're most likely going to be atheist if they leave the church, and they don't want to lose faith. Tell them what Jesus is, what he has done in your heart, and give them hope...something to trade in their false faith with!
[I replied:] The problem is that you're forgetting what happened in the event today. I didn't come up to them and told them, "Hey, your prophet is a false prophet and you should check out JosephLied.com." No, only after they did not answer my question as to why they hold Mormonism is true did I tried to demonstrate the more beautiful and unique God of the Bible. I wasn't acting as a skeptic trying to lead them to nothingness. I was the one trying to point them to God's word in the Bible. They obviously rejected what I was offering and weren't interested in any dialogue. At that point, I gave them something not easily forgotten, viz., JosephLied.com. Given decades of evangelizing LDS, I know that God has to cause the increase as 1 Cor. 3:6 says after I plant and water. I have many testimonies of people who put JosephLied.com on the shelf and when they finally get honest, do they go to a site that's easy to recall.
Another thing I just thought of... if you just give people what Christ did for them and tell them how much He loved them, and yet you don't challenge their worldview and give reasons why they need to repent and trust the Christ of the Bible, then generally speaking, you will lead people to atheism. They will just assume your Jesus story is just that... a story without any substance to it. That is why Paul commands us to destroy arguments and anything that sets itself up against the knowledge of God (2 Cor. 10:4-5) and that our job is to persuade others (2 Cor. 5:11).
But if a person isn't ultimately concerned about The Truth, then nothing you say is going to matter at the time. And if some truth offends them, then as Jesus told His disciples who were worried about the Pharisees being offended at Jesus telling them that it doesn't matter what goes into the mouth, but what comes out of the mouth that matters, Jesus told His disciples to just leave them alone, since every tree the Father hasn't planted will be uprooted (Matt. 15:1-20).
[She replied:] I see the value of the simple information (website) that they can recall easily, but remember it is Jesus who does the saving. We don't have to be desperate or frantic in our trying to save them....or we'll lose ground with them and push them further into the cult. According to what you said, you asked them why they believed in their Mormon teachings when there is so much evidence against it... that certainly put them immediately on the defense, because of the last part of the question. It would be like saying "why do you choose to drive that car when everyone knows it's a piece of junk?" versus, "Hey can I show you this beautiful car that people can get for free? It's so amazing... look...." You won't even need to tell him he has a piece of junk and has been lied to, if you have something so much greater. They'll come to that conclusion themselves, in their own mind and heart- and I think it's much better when they are able to make that decision in their own space as God himself saves them from the cult.
[I replied:] as I mentioned above with the 1 Cor. 3:6 passage, God is the ultimate Savior, but that doesn't excuse our responsibility to plant, water, and to by all means "save some" as Paul says in 1 Cor. 9:22. Not to mention to redeem the the time for the days are evil (Eph. 5:14-17), and people are going to hell all the time.
I don't think your analogy is good, since a position may be defended and I may be persuaded. You are the one not operating in humility if you don't recognize our fallibility. It's an honest and good question that allows them to think and to persuade. To "come let us reason" as the Lord calls us to (Isa. 1:18) and as Paul did throughout Acts (e.g., ch. 17). So again, your showing has its place, but with about 50 years of reaching out to these guys, I know they need much more than that... especially given quick confrontations. LDS and other cultists are notorious for taking what Christians show them and they condescendingly think they are just adding to it with their latter day revelation. To downplay the value in quick confrontations is just myopic. Most Christians just aren't skilled in this area of dealing with cultists. Cultists also need their worldview destroyed and they need *reasons* for faith as scripture commands. Your thoughts need to be based in God's word and not simply in what makes sense to you.
Another problem most Christians have is they don't understand the differences in evangelistic contexts and they broadly whitewash them all together. The evangelism in a personal family or friend situation is quite different from the evangelism done on the street. Both have warrant and biblical precedent and neither should be minimized. One should also not proudly assume one's preferred method is what everyone else should be doing. God bless!
[She replied:] thank you, Rob, there's a lot there and I'll be considering what you've shared here as I refine my Evangelical approaches with them.
[I replied:] not sure if you read it, but I wrote the chapter in here on Website Advertising: The Sign Approach. Lot of good chapters on all sorts of methods. https://www.amazon.com/Sharing-Good-News-Mormons-Conversation/dp/0736974067
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Lord God…I lift up these six missionaries to You. Please, reveal Yourself to them just as You did to me. I pray their hearts be receptive to You. Help them to listen and know who You really are. Take the scales off their eyes. Most importantly, give them the courage to change!!!
Bless Rob’s ministry. Give him the health and strength to continue this mighty work! Let him see the fruit of his labor!! God! You are amazing and we love you! Amen!
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Awesome story. They are just walking dead men. Hopefully the Holy Spirit will open there eyes that are blind to the truth and there hearts and they would become alive .
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You rock Rob, thank you for being the watchman on the wall
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I'm finding that when I witness to Mormons I try first of all to give them the gospel of Jesus Christ (1Cor 15: 1-4) then ask if that is the same gospel they have. And then ask who would want you to believe a different gospel...surely it isn't Jesus now is it?! That's seems to at least get them thinking. Great job Rob, I pray those young guys will look at your site and start to see maybe they have been duped!!! Praying for all the lost Mormons.❤
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Thank you for loving my people so much, brother. And thank you for being willing to pay the price to do so. "Do not grow weary in well doing."
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You’re bold. Courageous. I read that in Acts. Incredible courage. And regardless of approach, you are trying to do exactly what the New Testament says to do… be witnesses! Tell the world. Engage with the lost. You encourage me brother. Praying for your ministry.
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