General conference
General conference
I had a good, but very difficult day at general conference. First guy was the same guy as 6 months ago who wanted to interview me. He took my paper, but he's got idiosyncratic Ostler theology evidently and is too much of a waste of time arguing with. So I ended up just ignoring him a bit until he left.
Next, was an elderly lady named Mary Ann who was Southern Baptist not too long ago. She asked me what Smith lied about. I went into polygamy, Joseph Smith Translation (JST), and Book of Abraham. She took 2 different papers from me including an extra copy of one. I also got to share about the difference between Christian monotheism and Mormon polytheism. She admitted that her faith seems to be based on the deceit of Smith. She was interested in looking into my church sometime but didn't seem interested in the Southern Baptists. She must have had a really bad experience there.
Anyway, we had a relatively short conversation. She had to get going, but it was a great conversation and probably the most worthwhile conversation all day.
A handful of LDS kept coming up to me wanting pictures with my signs--the MormonInfo.org/ JosephLied.com one during the day and the lighted JosephLied.com at night. I got a handful of compliments on the lighted sign.
I had a lengthy conversation with Christopher. He's an LDS guy who also asked what Smith lied about. I went into polygamy. He said that Smith had sealings not marriages, since the latter was against the law. Thus, Smith was not lying. I told him he was being idiosyncratic in the way he referred to them. His Church was clear they were marriages for time and all eternity, and that the result was about 40 women who became his "wives". Smith was obviously attempting to dissemble on at least a couple  occasions when he claimed to have only one wife.
Next, we talked about the JST. Though all the evidence goes against Smith's translation, Christopher has a revelation, and that's all that matters to him. Why would we believe Smith got it right? Christopher simply continued begging the question.
Rational conversation was basically over at this point, at least for this subject. However, if this doesn't bother him, then nothing I was going to say with other subjects was going to make any difference anyway. Nonetheless, I entertained some of his reasons for why he holds to his God.
He didn't understand what the Trinity taught, and kept assuming I held to Modalism (Father is the Son, who is the Spirit, who is the Father). He also kept playing the Jn. 17:22 card. I tried telling him that the Godhead's oneness is infinitely more than simply purpose, and that God is God by nature (Gal. 4:8). On the one hand, he resorted to avoiding talking about separate "Gods" even though the members of the LDS Godhead are clearly separate in their being. I also gave him instances of that language from the D&C and PGP as well as what Smith actually taught, but Christopher simply dismissed it. But on the other hand, he focused on the term "Elohim" as being plural in Gen. 1. I tried to explain that though a plural term, it's a malleable term. Sometimes it is translated as "God" and sometimes "Gods" depending on the context and verb usage. Christopher thought that this was sufficient to invalidate the Trinity doctrine, but I told him it's obvious to me that he doesn't even understand what that doctrine teaches otherwise he wouldn't use this argument as well as the argument that the Father and Son communicate with each other.
Mary Ann with walkerChristopher kept trashing the Trinity with his genetic fallacy and even said the term isn't found in the Bible. I told him that the term "missionary" isn't found in the Bible either, but that doesn't entail that we shouldn't hold to missionaries. That quickly moved him on to the next talking point.
He also kept talking about us being co-heirs with Christ. I kept trying to explain to Him that Christ never inherited Godhood. As such, since He never inherited it, we never will either. However, Christ has always been God who created everything. Christopher had a difficult time seeing how his view entailed that Christ didn't create all things--the planet he was born on, the heavenly grandfather's planet, Lucifer, etc. This entails that he devalues Christ and teaches a false Christ. He asked why this was a big deal since we both agree that Christ loves us. So I told Christopher that Christ warned of false Christs, and the Bible portrays Christ as "God over all blessed forever" (Rom. 9:5). I told Christopher that if he persisted in rebelling against the knowledge God gives of himself, then Christopher would be going to hell and of course I don't want to see that. That really bothered him.
He kept interrupting me and really wasn't listening well to what I was saying. He realized that I claimed to have prayed and received an answer from the Spirit that contradicts Christopher's testimony, so he told me how much he wished me well, shook my hand, and went to conference. I told him how much I loved him.
Later when I came back with my lighted sign, another LDS stopped me. He took my tract, and I was able to lay out for him what exactly the difference is between his exalted man view of God and my view, which is the Creator of all things.
Tonight, every time I saw Black people walk by, I made a point of saying, "God is not an exalted white man." One Black said that it's possible God is. I told this Black guy that it is impossible according to the God of the Bible, who is not a man in his nature (Hos. 11:9 with Gal. 4:8). He's infinitely greater as the Creator of literally everything outside his own being.
One of the batteries dropped off my lighted sign after about a half-hour of having it on. Unfortunately, I couldn't fix it there and ended up leaving. God probably did that so I could have enough time to go birthday shopping for my daughter with my other daughter tonight.
Anyway, please pray for these people and that many will be drawn to check out the JosephLied.com site.
MeetTheExMormons.org
Dave Johnson came to share his story last month. You may watch the video and see the pictures at the site linked right above.
A strange call
Late one night at 10:53 PM, I got a strange call from an LDS missionary! The entire call, I wasn't sure if the guy was really serious or not. They use the same phone that all the previous missionaries used in a particular location in South Jordan, UT and I got that number from previous missionaries. He asked if I knew who this was. I said, "Well the phone says you're the LDS missionaries." He said, "You're listed as someone not to contact." I said, "That's probably because I run JosephLied.com."
He said, "What Joseph? Joseph of Egypt?" I replied, "No, the context we're dealing with is your prophet--Joseph Smith. I hold he's a false prophet who failed every biblical test for being a prophet of God. You're never going to be a God, God never had to become a God by following some other God and getting a wife. You guys are following a false god, a false Jesus, a false Holy Spirit, a false prophet, who gave false scriptures and he's leading you to hell and you're leading others to hell by promoting all this."
The missionary replied, "I do believe in Jesus." I replied, "I said that you're following a false Jesus to hell. You need to repent and leave the LDS Church immediately. I love you and someone has to warn you before it's too late. Please check out my site sometime... JosephLied.com." He said, "Will I get a virus if I go there?" I said, "Of course not. Many LDS have gone there and they've discovered they've been hoodwinked." He asked, "What does that mean?" I said, "It means your religion is a farce and you've been deceived."
He ended by saying, "Well, you have a goodnight." I ended by saying, "OK, take care." I pray that I at least peaked his interest and that God will draw him out and to Himself.
We need your partnership
If you’re looking for ways to store up for yourself treasures in heaven (Matt. 6:19-20), may I suggest investing in our ministry? We not only need your prayers, but we need your financial partnership as well. Keep in mind that your investment is not simply for us, but for the lives of others we reach with the gospel. The standard way to financially invest is by writing a tax-deductible check to Courageous Christians United (CCU). For more information on various ways to invest in this ministry, including online giving, please see our “Invest” page on our sites. If you’re not a partner and are blessed by these monthly updates, please join our team and let us know soon. We’d love to be your missionaries here in Utah. Many thanks to those of you who hold us up in prayer and/or in your financial giving!
Be strong and courageous (Joshua 1:6)!
Rob Sivulka
President, Courageous Christians United
P.O. Box 1374
West Jordan, UT 84088
(801) 792-6373
MormonInfo.org
MeetTheExMormons.org
JWinfo.org
MuhammadLied.Info
AbortionIsMurder.Info
Mailbag
Thank you for your faithful service to the Mormon people
_______________
I posted a meme of the LDS President and his current wife and the former is quoted as saying, "Become one with her." I replied, "There will be no oneness with his 2 eternal wives in the next life. For LDS who think there is a state [of] marriage in the resurrection, how do you explain that we will be like the angels according to Jesus in Matthew 22:30 when your D&C 132:16-7 says angels are single[?]" Some LDS guy replied... "under your definition of oneness is it then not possible for us to be one with Christ at the same time?
[I replied:] Ha! Spiritual oneness with the Almighty is quite different from the oneness originally intended in creation (Gen. 2:24 & Matt. 19:5). Good luck attempting that with multiple women. Tell me what your wife thinks of that.
___________
I'm interested in finding out more about your church. Was raised mormon and want to start getting back into church life after bad divorce.
[I replied:] Here for any questions you have about Jesus. Please also check out DivorceCare.org and put your zip code in for the nearest church that facilities this 13 week program. My wife and I have led this in a couple states.
God bless!
____________
...Thanks for sharing at general conference!
____________
Great job, Rob!
____________
Someone has to shine a light in the darkness. To be the spearhead of thought that God uses to make those He has chosen and hear His voice question their beliefs. Those who have ears will start searching. Seek and you shall find. And when they find truth, it changes everything. It's how I was saved. Well done! God has truly gifted you with the ability to be that spearhead.
____________
Awesome! I love your stories! ❤️
____________
Amen! There was definitely a reason he called! May the Lord open his precious eyes to see his sin and turn to Christ for salvation!
|
