My girls modeling my new bumper stickerLDS Missionaries
I ran into the LDS missionaries again shoveling snow outside my folks' place. I just saw them the week prior (see "More LDS Missionaries in my January report). I think it's a divine conspiracy.
I asked God to give me the words to say to these guys before talking to them. I asked one if they read the book yet, and he said no and he didn't care to read something that wasn't true and went against his faith. I told him that sounds rather closed-minded of him. He didn't deny it. Instead, he went into his testimony. I told him that God gave him a mind to test all things and hold fast to that which is good according to 1 Thes. 5:21.
Well, the bad cop came out. I asked how he knew it was of God and he said, "What else could it be?" I told him, "Satan or your flesh, and I've already told you the other day about what Prov. 14:12 says. You could be happy and headed to hell." Well, he obviously didn't like that. I figured these guys were too closed-minded and that I was getting the green light from God to really lay it on them, which is exactly what I did. They got what my dad says is the only thing that works with these guys, viz., shock treatment!
I told them that they weren't listening to God's word. They said that they love God's word. I told them, "You already told me the other day that you haven't read the Bible all the way through. So I'm telling you that your feeling is contrary to it." Then I quoted a handful of Isaiah passages to them that clearly teach monotheism. One said, "Well, we believe we can become like Jesus." I said, "I do too, but Jesus never had to become a God and you aren't going to be Gods either. Your church has lied to you in Abraham 4-5 and in the temple ceremony where God had help with the other Gods of Jehovah and Michael in laying out the heavens and the earth." They clearly acknowledged that God became a God and that they could become Gods just like God did, which is exactly what Smith taught.
At that point, the other missionary started doubting the trustworthiness of the Bible, so I told them that's what atheists typically say. I went into the Dead Sea Scrolls story and demonstrated that Joseph Smith was distorting the Bible with his prophecy of himself in Gen. 50 as well as what he did with 2 Sam. 12:13 where God did not put David’s sin away from him. The Dead Sea Scrolls were found in 1947 and they predated the oldest complete Hebrew Old Testament we had about 1,000 years. So if this missionary's story was correct, we'd see all these changes, but we don't have that. This proves that this atheist/1 Nephi 13 story of the "plain and precious things" being removed is a lie and they should have listened to Isa. 40:8 to begin with: "Grass withers and the flower fads, but the word of the Lord stands forever."
One missionary said, "There are so many interpretations of the Bible and that's why God gave us the Book of Mormon." I said, "There are all sorts of interpretations of the BM too and many sects are based off it. You haven't given me any good reason why I should believe what you believe." They deflected, "Well, we don't want you to believe what we believe." I said, "Look, if you have the truth, I want to believe it, but you have given me no good reason to believe it and I have given you all sorts of good reasons why I shouldn't believe it. But you guys don't care. All you care about is your feeling, and that's why 2 Thes. 2:11 says that God has given you a strong delusion to believe a lie. That's why you're going to hell and you need someone to warn you before it's too late. Smith was a false prophet and your church is lying to you. You need to repent before you end up in hell."
One said, "Well then I'll look down on you when I go there." I said, "I'm not going there; I'm going to the celestial kingdom. Not because I'm worthy, but I know that the Worthy One has taken my place."
It was at this point that one said that there are 3 heavens. I challenged him on that and asked for him to give me just one Bible scripture that teaches 3 segregated heavens we go to after death. He just said, "Well, I'm no sciptorian."
They shook my hand and started to leave. So I told them, "Look, I love you guys, but please after your mission look up my site some time... JosephLied.com."
Immediately after they left, my dad called. My folks were on their way back from him having full knee replacement surgery that morning. He said that I should have asked for the books back. I told him that he could ask them when he sees them. My guess is they probably just threw them away.
Pray that something I said to these missionaries may bother them until they repent.
Our friend Steve Wilson shared his transition story into Christ last month. You may watch that testimony and see the pictures by clicking the link above.
Here’s my review of It's You and Me, Lord!: My Experience as a Black Mormon by Alan Gerald Cherry.
More books, both by LDS and non-LDS!
Update on Doctoral Program
Last month I received word that I will be receiving the bursary again at North-West University. That helps cover about 50 to 60% of my bill.
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[Tanner Smith said:] ur not funny die
[I replied:] thanks! If you can't take a joke from someone who thinks Smith was a false prophet, then this probably isn't a site for you. Praying you'll wake up before it's too late.
Hello Rob, your website is very informative, so thank you for that great resource. That being said, I was hoping that maybe you’d have the answer to my question about Mormonism. Nowadays, when I talk to missionaries they seem to be denying their beliefs more and more, especially the belief that Heavenly Father was once a man like us , and there were gods before him. Do you think they’re straight up lying , or do you think that it’s not being taught anymore in the Mormon church ?
[I replied:] Yes, you are right on the mark! More are doing that, and it is frustrating. That's why we need to keep the conversation off what they hold and put it squarely on what their leaders have taught. I think LDS need to be confronted about this stuff and I think they are socialized into talking the way they do as they always have, so I don't think it's necessarily straight up lying. Having said that even LDS scholar Joanna Brooks has faulted her own for using insider and outsider language which amounts to lying for the Lord. And she called it "lying for the Lord."
[He replied:] Oh I see — so kind of a Bob Millette approach of asking the question “he should Have asked” .
—I’ve also noticed that they even deny what other leaders have taught or say “that’s their opinion”. I had one missionary the other day tell me that Mormons don’t reject the cross and that when Hinkley called the cross a mere symbol of death, it was just “his opinion”
So pretty much — anyone who disagrees with them is just “misunderstanding”, and when the leaders contradict each other they’re “speaking as men” — that’s pretty convenient 😂
[I replied:] Yes, and this is where you need to stick to the biblical tests for a prophet. Since their leaders have failed, it's irrelevant whether its an opinion or something sanctioned by the Church. What matters, again, is what they taught and how the Bible has warned us of these false prophets who have taught false gods, made false prophecy, and have a lot of other bad fruit.
we'll stick to the Bible rather than the shifting sands of Mormonism
[He replied:] Thanks for the great advice, brother! I was LDS and I’ve been set free now almost 10 years. I used to post links to your website on my old ward’s Facebook group after leaving the Mormon church.
Hello brother , have you ever received any threats of violence from Mormons ?
[I replied:] yeah, and violence
[He replied:] You’ve been assaulted by Mormons ?
Wow, I guess the spirit of the Danites lives on
[I replied:] yeah, a number of times
[He replied:] Was this when you were outside the temple holding up your website banner ?
[I replied with the thumbs up.]
[He replied:] Well, I’m sorry you’ve had to go through that, but it’s amazing what you do for the gospel. I’m sure it must be great encouragement when you see fruit
[I replied:] I've been spit on, pushed, had rocks and other objects thrown at me, have had cops called on me numerous times, and been falsely arrested.
Also[,] otherwise nice LDS swear at me and flip me off thousands of times. One guy told us to leave his door or he'd get his gun. All sorts of great memories. LDS dog ripped my suit pants going door to door. 😉
[He replied:] Matthew 5:11-12 ,”Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.”
Keep up the good work Rob ., you’re a rock star and we’ll continue to contribute to and pray for your ministry.
You write so well
Prayed for you. Thanks