Bob, Rob, and Charis Sivulka at March for Life
March for Life
My dad, daughter, and I went to the March for Life at the Utah capitol this past month. It was our first time to attend, and we were all impressed with what took place. We packed the inside of the capitol building, listened to various speakers, including a couple state legislators, and then we marched around the building on the public street, many of whom were carrying signs. I heard estimates of 2,500 that attended.
I have always been passionate about defending the unborn, the most defenseless among us. They are truly among “the least of these my brethren” (Mat. 25:40). From my youth, I have been very vocal about the subject. I have picketed an abortion clinic, I used to have signs on back of my car that caused quite a lot of controversy, and I continue to post about the subject on my Facebook pages.
Unfortunately, many Christians won’t defend the unborn in anyway, and even more unfortunate, many pastors won’t even mention anything about it over the pulpit. It’s just too controversial and divisive a subject. So these Christians are content to let tiny human beings be butchered rather than offend anyone. Many of our churches will send mission teams all the way to Africa to care for children, but do absolutely nothing to care for the most defenseless child being butchered just down the street from their church.
Greg Johnson of Standing Together
CharisFormer Mormon, now Christian minister, Greg Johnson of Standing Together ministry recently came out with yet another attack of Christians who preach at the LDS General Conferences. Greg assumes that any harshness is inconsistent with love. In this video, Greg is trying his best Mr. Rogers impersonation for our time and context. Not even butter would melt in his mouth! Greg just continues not to listen to the Bible that commands sharp rebukes of the deceivers (Titus 1:10-3). Does this passage command us to not be loving or does love have a little broader definition than our PC understanding of that term? If love isn’t broad enough to occasionally include sharp rebukes, then our Lord would have been unloving! Perhaps Greg and his ilk ought to be a little more supportive and thankful for other flexible evangelists who are able to properly judge how to apply love in a given situation.
I am very supportive and thankful of those who simply are called to friendship or relational evangelism, since I realize we are the Body of Christ and we need to be supportive of each other. I don’t expect anyone to do ministry like I do. So why is it that so many of these like Greg Johnson find what traditional street preachers do to be unloving and going about ministry in the wrong way? And if they won’t go that far, they don’t even want to be associated with these conflict-entrepreneurs who are desperately attempting to bring the peace of God. They’re simply thrown under the bus. Even though Greg generalized all street preachers outside General Conference, perhaps some of these preachers do in fact have terrible motives. If that’s the case, what did Paul say about that? He praised the Lord that nonetheless the gospel was being preached (Phil. 1:15-18).
That being said, I do find Greg enjoys giving rebukes, albeit nice ones, to only his fellow believers. It would be great if he would just give nice rebukes to Mormons who are headed to hell. Instead, he prides himself on blessing Mormons, shaking their hands, as they go off to their Satanically inspired cult as the better way to reach out to these dear people. As important pre-evangelism as that may be, it’s not evangelism, and it detracts from evangelism when he pits himself against his Christian brothers and sisters in front of the Conference Center. I call that satanic, so I have no problem stating to Greg: “Get thee behind me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men” (Mat. 16:23).
I also find him to be somewhat hypocritical in showing up for the March for Life. He seems at least supportive here of marching with signs and supportive of people simply showing up to show their support. Is that ineffective? Evidently it's not. So would Greg be equally supportive of evangelists standing together at General Conference with JosephLied.com signs and marching around Temple Square so long as we aren't harsh? Probably not. But those of us in counter-cult ministries really don’t care about Greg's blessing to do ministry to Mormons anyway. He has been confronted on these things numerous times, including by various pastors, but it seems to go in one ear and out the other.
My friend David Howell came to share with our monthly fellowship. I thought he did a good job, but he wasn’t happy with his presentation, so I didn’t post the video. Perhaps some other time, but you may still see the pictures at the URL above.
I recently wrote a blog called “The One True Church's History of Lying on Polygamy.” I wanted a quick reference to three early examples on the subject, and hopefully, it will be helpful to you as well.
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...I think I'd say my real interest is in how/why people buy into any false belief. Deception is so... deceptive. But my interest is more how to reach them with the Gospel, which is how I found your YouTube videos of ex-Mormons sharing how the Lord brought them out of Mormonism and into the true Christ.
I don't understand; what is Shawn [McCraney]'s take on the Father, Son, HS? I ask, because I have a friend who recently started a youtube channel because she was prompted to start it to answer questions to Mormons knocking on her door. I don't know her references for research yet, but I remember back in the day when I gleaned information from Lighthouse Ministry, your ministry, Shawn's, the Arlington, TX outreach, and Mormon Stories for better perspectives, in addition to the books I read. So I guess I'm confused here. How has Shawn evolved?
[I replied:] Please check out a couple blogs I wrote on this a number of years ago: HERE and HERE.
I left the Jehovah's Witnesses after deep personal scripture study. I could no longer teach people JW doctrines that were not in accordance to scripture. The elders were going to disfellowship me after my attempt to help my friend. They had three judicial meetings on my account.. but I held fast against their accusation.
Way to go, Rob!!
I am glad that God gave you the opportunity, and the wisdom to confront Elder Uchtdorf. May God grant him repentance which leads to salvation through the grace of Christ alone. Keep up the fight.
You are an awesome team of fellow zealots. I will be sending a gift every month from now on. ...The real work of the Mormon minstry is now in your hands and those of others like you. Now I need a cane to just keep from falling down and leave the lifting to you.
Rob, one of my housemates… is getting baptized in the Mormon Church tonight.
I believe I'm too close to the situation (roommate tensions, etc.). [We] both rent rooms from a Mormon… Like I said, there are some tensions and some other reasons I don't believe I'm in the best place to speak directly to them about their Mormonism. But I did have short convos with both [them] about the fact that there is only one God. I was hoping you might be able to speak to [him] sometime. He mentioned to me "proof" discovered in South America supporting the BOM yada yada yada.
It's a tight rope - talking to these guys about Mormonism (I don't want to get kicked out), but I may do so anyway. Still, I think it would be better to have an "outsider" (Christian) who is more up-to-date on all the latest stuff. Is it possible you might be able to speak with [him] if I can arrange it?
...Btw, I know you're busy, but I like the convo you had with the Mormon missionaries on youtube and I know this is what you do. I'd like the best person to be able to speak with my roommate/s and I believe that might be you.
[I replied:] Give him my site and see if he's up for talking
I’m curious to know what’s wrong with episcopal
[I replied:] Well they have gone way left. The latest example is advocating gay marriage and ordaining and not excommunicating those who openly live in gay relationships. This goes against the nature of God, who is a moral being. Liberal churches typically use a traditional denominational label and reject 1 or more of the essentials of the Christian faith.
Cults like Mormonism do it without the denominational title and condemn all of historic Christianity. There are some conservative Episcopal churches out there
...She was reading the book of Mormon. And I told her about you and your website. She promised me to look it up
Life begins at conception? So I guess the sperm is not alive till it meets the egg? Or is it? Does that mean that when some masturbates; they've committed a holocaust? George Carlin in discussing this said that life began 6 billion years ago & it's a continuous process.
[I replied:] [T]he problem is you confuse a human part with the same DNA of its being (soul) with a new being (soul) that has a separate DNA. Those beings come into existence at conception. You have been socialized not to think clearly about this issue since you aren't feeding off of God's word.
...I don't know of a higher one than God and what he's revealed. He's revealed plainly in scripture that life begins in the womb. I can quote the passages if you'd like.
Further, we know scientifically that a brand new being happens at conception with new DNA, and with time, can grow to be a grandparent. So what follows? Human life unfolds like a compacted, tiny fold[ed]-up piece of paper. I'm yet to hear what's wrong with these arguments. Just citing other takes isn't persuasive to me. So human life ought to be protected in all its unfoldings, not burned up like any other piece of trash.
Rob, I'm reading your Newsletter today about your meeting, and conversation with LDS Dieter Uchtdorf. Wow! You got your chance to get in close and gave him your best "clean shot". There's no blood on your hands, brother! Utmost respect to you for your courage to not shrink back, but to be a "Courageous Christian" and speak the truth when it counts. I am praying for both of you.
If you claim to be trinitarian, you are still not balanced and stuck in falsehood. Repent, that garbage is straight from hell.
[I replied:] You need to repent for following a false, unbiblical god.
[He replied:] I clearly proved biblically one GOD. You need to repent from 3gods and being protestant, which also claims trinitarian.
[I replied:] just because you prove 1 God doesn't entail you disprove trinitarianism, since it also holds to one God.
[He replied:] You just said 1 GOD doesn't disprove the Trinity, lol, how else are you going to prove 3 persons/3gods 😆. Prove yourself mr. protestant with chapter and verse that says there are 3 persons. For future reference, don't make truth claims, unless you can provide Bible, not philosophy.
Only Bible works here.
[I replied:] You assume since there are 3 persons there must be 3 gods, but that's tritheism, not trinitarianism. Just because something is different from another doesn't entail it's separate from another. Sides of a triangle are different from the angles of a triangle, but that doesn't entail that the angles and sides of a triangle are *separate* things. They are inseparable. So the burden should be on you to show where the F, S, HS are the same person. Until you do that, I'll just continue teaching the Trinity. Most people read the NT and think the F isn't the S, the S isn't the HS, and the HS isn't the F.
[He replied:] You brought no scripture to back yourself up. I didn't assume anything, Trinity is based on 3 persons. I obviously shattered the Trinity doctrine with scriptures in the other comments. Are you drunk or something? You don't pay attention to detail, I said prove yourself with scriptures. Stop leading people into believing in falsehood you heretic. You are marked a heretic, until you produce fruits of repentance.
[I replied:] Again, most people aren't modaliststs, and don't read the NT speaking of the F, S, HS as 1 person with just different titles. Why? Because scripture is clear they are in relation with each other and work with each other throughout eternity. Jn. 1:1, 17:5, Jesus's baptism, etc., etc. So again, why assume they are simply 1 person rather than 3 different ones who separably and eternally are the only Creator?