| December 2, 2011
Dear Family and Friends,
St. Paul told Timothy to watch his life and doctrine closely (1 Tim. 4:16). Paul also taught that if he was able to understand all mysteries and all knowledge, but didn’t have love, he had nothing (1 Cor. 13:2). So while doctrine certainly matters, if it’s not coupled with love, it’s irrelevant. That’s why Paul tells us that we are to speak the truth in love (Eph. 4:15). If they’ll know that we’re disciples by our love for one another (Jn. 13:34-5), yet our Christian community is filled with such hatred as divorce, then our testimony to unbelievers is shot.
Last month I found out two different couple friends of ours have an impending divorce. The cause? Adultery. This is unfortunately all too common these days. As DivorceCare leaders at our local church, my wife and I have the privilege of ministering to those devastated by divorce. Too many people these days, as author Gary Thomas writes in Sacred Marriage, enter into marriage simply for happiness rather than holiness. When the happiness goes, so does the marriage. Tara and I have problems in our marriage just like any other couple, but what keeps us together when the happiness goes? Our commitment to Christ and trusting that He’s at work in our lives. Since that’s the case, marriage is sacred and needs protection. Not only for our benefit, but for the benefit of our kids and the rest of the community. Everyone is affected when marriages are trivialized. Please keep praying for God’s protection of our marriage and that He’ll use us to reach out every semester to our state which is yearly either at or slightly above the national average in divorce.
As for last month’s ministry news, we hosted a dinner for a mission team from Crossline Church, Laguna Hills, CA. Brett Kunkle, our board member and on staff of Stand to Reason, led this team of about 30 high school and college missionaries. He brought them over to hear Tara’s testimony, and me share about 5 Big Statements LDS Make to Trip Christians Up (a condensed version of this presentation).
|Rob and Tara sharing with Crossline Community|
We also hosted an Ex-Mormon Meetup with Emily Madsen. We had around 20 people share in an early Thanksgiving meal, and then Emily shared her wonderful testimony out of Mormonism and into Christ. You may see the video here and the pictures here.
As for site updates, I edited and added a couple written testimonies. One is by Matthew Konen and the other is by Andrew Hopgood. Given all the recent talk concerning Mitt Romney’s faith being a cult or not, I added a discussion page on the matter. And on a related issue, I wrote a film review of Adam Christing’s documentary A Mormon President: Joseph Smith and the Mormon Quest for the White House.
Finally, our board member and Mormonism Research Ministry staff member, Aaron Shafovaloff, randomly came across a video of me on YouTube preaching the 10 commandments to a crowd at the 2010 Manti Pageant.
We really value your partnership with this ministry. We not only need your prayers, but we need your financial assistance as well. Your investment is not simply for us, but for the lives of others we reach with the gospel. The standard way to financially invest is by writing a check to Courageous Christians United (CCU). But we also have secure electronic funds transfer programs available if you are interested in the simplicity of monthly withdrawals without the stamp. This also helps us with our monthly budgeting. For more information, please see our “Invest” page. Please also keep in mind that, particularly in this economy, we have no financial guarantees each month. Ministry partners come and go as jobs do. At this point, we would like to raise at least $400 each month to cover costs. If you’re not a partner, please consider joining our team and let us know soon. We’d love to be your missionaries here in Utah. Many thanks to those of you who hold us up in prayer and in your financial giving!
President, Courageous Christians United
P.O. Box 1374
West Jordan, UT 84084
****ADDITIONAL PRAYER REQUESTS****
1. Health & protection for our whole family
2. Tara’s and Maddi’s families to be saved
3. Wisdom in all our dealings
4. The gals finishing our DivorceCare class this month
Thank You for what you do. What a brave soul you are. I am recently RUNNING out of mormonism after 2 years as a convert. Hope to attend my first year at Manti with the Evidence Ministries group next year. Watch you nightly on Utube and use those clips as study.Thank GOD 4examples like you and others.I pray softened hearts find you . much peace...
You know Rob, you are an idiot. You have insulted millions of church goers with your remarks and I am so incensed I can barely type this. A CHRISTIAN does not bash another religion! A Christian is like Jesus was - kind, good, benevolent,caring, loving. Remember how He treated the prostitute? He who is without sin cast the first stone? How can you dare to call these religions false Christians except for Islam who do not believe in Christ and have their own agenda? You make the atonement a mockery! You make the crucifixion a mockery! Jesus died for all of us and here you go making it seem as if it never happened. I hope I never meet you on the street because I will be so tempted to slap you in the fave in the name of our loving Savior Jesus.
Good newsletter & testimony about your experiences, brother. God give you & family continued grace & strength to do your work for His glory.
That [the newsletter] was a blessing to read! The Lord be with you always.
In His Grace,
Your depth is a well of benefits and your passion is powerful in our region.
Just watched Emily [Mad]sen testimony at Mormoninfo.org- very nice- emotional and the fact that she finally discovered forgiveness from Christ seemed so relieving for her.
I feel that God is calling me to witness to Mormons who are just completely lost, no matter how hard that may be. I would love to go on a missions trip with your ministry and experience the power that Christ has on even the most lost. So if you could email me back, that'd be awesome. I'm currently going to school as a freshman in college, but I would gladly put my classes on hold to have the opportunity to come to Utah and witness. Thank you so much for you time and for the blessing that your ministry is. God bless and have an awesome day.
I was just telling my sister tonight that I actually get more joy out of giving to your ministry than I do from going shopping! For me that says a lot. Praise the Lord for allowing me a tiny part in the ministering you are doing to the Mormons. Every time I read on facebook or your site about ex-mormon meetups, I get so jealeous!!!!!! Keep up the good work. God is already saying “well done, good and faithful servent.
Blessings to you and your family!
My friend doesn't believe that Jesus is God. How important is it that she believe that for her salvation? When I talk w/ her about it her answers are so sometimes convincing & sometimes confusing. She say's open, but her " logic" is so strong. It's very challenging to say the least. So I'm praying hard for wisdom & discernment & love. Any advice would be appreciated. I am searching your website.
Blessings & Hugs
[I replied:] Jesus said this: Jn. 8:24 & 17:3. Paul said that idolaters will not inherit eternal life. The 1st commandment is we should have no other Gods before God. So I'd say it's essential to at least not deny that Jesus is God. You need to be careful with LDS, since when we say that Jesus is God, they think we mean that Jesus is the Father. They need to understand that we mean that the only being of God that exists by nature is eternally made up of 3 Persons. Even the Book of Mormon calls Jesus the Eternal God on its title page. When this is pointed out, LDS have to say that this means that Jesus is 1 of the members of the Godhead. That means a team of 3 separate Gods, each of whom have been exalted to that team. However that contradicts what the Book of Mormon teaches in Alma 11:24-9, viz., that there's only 1 true and living God and "he" doesn't know of any other God. So Jesus must be this God just as much as the Father, Son, & HG. If only the Father is this true and living God, then Jesus and the HG must be false gods.
Here's a lecture I gave on the Trinity..
My husband and I would like to give $50 to Courageous Christians United every month. Please see attached for our banking info to get the auto-withdrawal set up. Let me know if you need anything else from us.
We met Rob and Tara in Dallas at Watermark Community Church in July of 2009. It was our second time attending there and their last before moving to Utah. We've been getting your newsletters every month since. I'm so glad, too. I had not encountered any Mormons until we moved to Dallas and suddenly I had three Mormon coworkers. The mormoninfo.org website and Rob's newsletters have helped both of us understand Mormonism better and be able to talk openly to one Mormon friend in particular. Thank you for your courageousness!!! I'm inspired to say the least! We, too, have moved from Dallas now… We sure do miss Watermark!! Praying your ministry continues to reach the lost.
So... I want to pray for financial help. But, I have never done that and frankly, I feel a little awkward doing it. but, I want to. I at least need some guidance for my entire family. How should I phrase it? Do you have any words of wisdom? I don't want to just open my mouth and say, "God, make me a monetarily wealthy man." It seems stupid. Help? Thanks brother!
[I replied:] Since we're God's kids, I don't think of asking for more $ is wrong however it's phrased. "Give us this day our daily bread" implies the financial resources to obtain it. Now you can pray to be wealthy, but God's under no obligation to answer that. He is under obligation to provide and take care of His kids, but what that looks like is ultimately His business and we need to trust Him come what may.
We really appreciate your ministry and all that you are doing for the Kingdom here in Utah.
I am confused and I am about to leave my faith and become a Muslim!
I was talking to a Muslim man and he said that Jesus was neither a GOD nor the son of GOD! And he said that the Prophet Jesus' real name was indeed "Isa" and Jesus was indeed a true Muslim! Because he did convey the same monotheistic massage as the Prophet Abraham, Noah, Moses conveyed which was that Allah (the only Lord=Creator) had revealed to mankind which was "There is no worthy of worship of any deity nor god or similar things but only Almighty Creator Whose name in Arabic is "Allah"" and this man also said that the Prophet Jesus (peace be upon him) was a true Muslim and he was only a prophet of the Almighty Creator = Allah in Arabic and that He sent the prophet Jesus to the tribe of Judah (the Jews) to correct them because they were out of control and worshipping things that they were not suppose to worship and Jews knew Jesus was a Muslim that is why they killed him, because Jews do not accept anything but their cult called Judaism.
As a matter of fact the Jews even didn't follow nor believed in Prophet Moses and prophet Moses died as a Muslim. And his brother Aaron was also a Muslim too. Same way Jews did their best to kill Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him).
I was kind a writing everything this Muslim man said and I was in shock about how much he knew about our faith Christianity!
He said Jews didn't killed the prophet Jesus because they hated hi nor because Jesus owe them money, but because since Jesus was created without a human father and he said that he was a prophet of Allah and sent to tribe of Jews to guide them! And Jews were slowly and slowly hurting prophet Jesus because Jews were thinking if he was the blessed one then by miracle he should escape from the torture and death!!! But also during all these torture on Prophet Jesus that Jesus cried to Allah ands said "O Allah why have you forsaking me?" and Allah told him to be patient!
[I replied:] Please take a look at my other site: www.MuslimInfo.org, and then we can talk. Islam is another cult of Christianity that became a world religion. The Bible is trustworthy and it gives a totally different picture than Islam presents. Islam didn't even start until Muhammad in the 6th century AD, so of course Moses and Aaron weren't Muslims.
[He replied:] thank you so very much! GOD b less you now i feel better. But please see this video and these both guys are talking were Christians and are Americans and they both were bishops and now they both become Muslims!
And this Muslim guy said that Islam was not the foundation of Muhammad but Islam was there since the Adam and Eve!
…i am on your site and reading it.
You must see this! you got to see it!
This white guy with bear was an american Christina Minister and now he is a Muslim!
Entire world become a Muslim! I am so confused !
The United State of America is going to me The United State of Islam!
I think i will embrace to Islam because its all make sense!
Why we Christians have be fooled by our churches and pastors and bishops etc. for all these years! Why our women are all naked! why we all drunk and why we all fornicate? why we go to Muslim country and kill their people to steal their oil?
why we call them terrorist while we christian terrorist the whole world??? Hitler was a christian! the white guy kill all people in Oklahoma was a christian and when the Jews were massacred by the christins Muslims were the one saved them and open the door to them and refuge them then why we blame to Islam?
oh i am all confused!
Jesus never said he was a god nor he never said worship me he never said trinity is a good thing he never said i bought you a religion called Christianity?!!
can you show me that he said all these so i can back to my faith Rob, please!
[I replied:] I'm not going to watch a video from some random guy when I've got a ton of things to get done. If you have specific questions, then I'm open to answering them.
I don't know where you're getting your info from. McVeigh grew up Christian, but like you seem to, he lost his faith and became an agnostic. Hitler's religion is a matter of dispute. Nonetheless, even if they claimed to be Christian, they were obviously hypocrites. You seriously don't think Islam has any hypocrites in it?
Of course Muslims are going to claim that Islam was progressively revealed just like any other cult does. Mormons, for example, claim that the Bible characters were part of the faith that was eventually revealed as the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Any cult makes the claim, but the problem is that the Bible doesn't teach their version of God.
If you looked at MuslimInfo.org, then you'd realize that the Bible teaches Jesus is the 2nd person of the only God there is and He allowed Himself to be worshiped and commended those who did just that. The references are there on the Home page chart of differences, so you need to deal with them fairly. (BTW, if you were really a Christian, then you'd know that we Christians don't claim Jesus is "a god" as you inferred. So you sound like you never were really grounded in Christianity to begin with, if at all. It sounds like you are a Muslim, since that's the way they talk. If you really are who you claim to be, then my suggestion to you is to first take a conservative class on intro to Christianity, and then decide whether you really want to jump ship or not. Look, I've had plenty of experience with guys like you from all different cults who act like they are all confused Christians ready to leave their faith. They all come across really nice, but they've got ulterior motives.)
Further, just because Jesus never used the term "Trinity" doesn't entail we shouldn't believe in the Trinity. The same silly logic would rule out believing in the "Bible" or "absolute moral objectivism," since none of these terms are mentioned in the Bible either. We use the terms simply because that's how we speak of the concepts the Bible teaches.
Again, I am very busy, so please don't waste my time.
[He replied:] This is my final email to you Rob, because you have been chosen to convey the only truth to your nation! What The almighty Creator has revealed to your prophet Jesus (PBUH)
Rob, do nto get angry or upset because you have been chosen to read me and this is your faith. You have read hundreds of books why don't you have 3 hours to read the Qur'an? Why Rob? Go to a Mosque and ask a FREE copy of a Quran! Read! Read! Read! Do nto ask questions to Muslim but Read the Holy Quran!
Did you know that entire Christians are worshiping to a Muslim man named Jesus! (Isa) becaus Isa (Jesus) was a muslim who delivered the same monotheistic message like all other prophets did which was '"do not worship other than ALLAH", Jesus is in all over the Holy Qur'an, read with your own eyes Rob! that is why he got killed by the Jews! You see the real enemy is not Muslims nor Islam! We all have been fooled by the false media! Muslims didnt killed Jesus, Muslims are not the one owned your buildings, hospitals, houses, banks, clothes and properties etc. Muslims are not the one outsource all of your jobs to India so the corporations can triple their blood money while Americans can not find job to buy dinner for their family! The only job problmes in USA is because corporatins outsource all teh jobs and servcie to India while Americans are starving!
they know how to sell their product to Americans but they all outsource all the jobs and services to India so Americans cannot find job!
Do not listen Medias crap! I read the Holy Qur'an and it doesn't bite!
100% Pastors, Bishops, Rabbis etc are lying to people about their faith just to keep their jobs! Church has always been a money making factory!
i feel better now because i have embraced to islam yesterday. because yesterday was the eid and i went to their eid place (the celebration for hajj) and saw thousands of Muslims were prostrating to Allah at same time by putting their front head on the floor, i felt my heart shine and filled with peace and tranquility because this was the only way to worship Lord = The Creator = Allah.
Now I am a Muslim and i bear witness that there is no worthy of worship any deity nor a god etc but only "Allah" the Almighty Supreme Lord and Creator of seen and unseen of all the worlds. and i bear witness that all the Prophets until Moses and Jesus the son of Mary and finally Muhammad son of Amina and Abdullah peace be upon them all were all the messengers of Allah, the Creator.
I feel perfect now and i am blessed. I knew i was fooled with all nonsense in my previous faith!!
As my pastor told me once that i should never ask any question about my Christian faith for why, when or how but only believe in whatever pastor or church tells me!
this sound like i should never ask whether this car is a Toyota or Lexus but i must believe deep in my heart that its shit is a Mercedes! hwo can you believe that toyota is a mercedes while is not!
Malcolm X was right!
Rob, Allah guide you and thank you for helping me to be a Muslim!
Take good care and do not afraid to read Qur'an because if you think Islam and Muslims are the enemy and if you want to defeat your enemy then read their secret book to see what they read and learn from it!
if you think Islam and Muslims are your friends then again read what they are reading so you can please your friends!
be safe and well.
I am a Muslim and I am so happy!
P.S. You were right about me being a bad former Christian because nothing ever made sense to me then but it all does now!
[I replied:] You assume I haven't read the Qur'an, but I have. That's why I was able to compile that list of differences between it and what the Bible teaches. Isa is Allah, the Creator of all from the beginning, revealed in human form as His Son. Again, deal with the Bible passages I have listed. Perhaps you need to read the Bible.
That pastor who told you to never question the Christian faith didn't know what he was talking about, since the Bible teaches that we are to "test all things and hold fast to that which is good" (1 Thes. 5:21).
You are a happy Muslim on his way to hell for denying that Isa is the Great I Am of Ex. 3:14 (cf. Jn. 8:24 & 56-58).
[He replied:] if Isa was a GOD then why he got killed ruthlessly by bunch a Jew? so GOD got killed by his own creation?!
Isa (peace be upon him) was a [poop]ing, urinating, farting man who was crying for mercy from Allah Himself and who was working to make living etc.
lets say despite all these i am telling you that Isa was a COD=CREATOR= Almighty Supreme Being The only ONE LORD!!!! then how the hell again he gets killed by bunch Jew?
I see no differences between buddist or hindu and christianity because they all the same by worshiping man, dead man, cows, monkeys etc.
Why don't you worship and submit to the Creator rather then His Creation!
Use you brain Rob,
If Jesus was a GOD and then god killed by his creation then who is sustaining this Universe after the death of GOD?
for millions of years despite over 1000 messenger and profits and zillion of proves and miracles you people are still worshiping a Muslim man called Isa who is dead oh i meant god killed by Jews and you people didn't do anything about that then nor now! Despite Jews killed your GOD you are still kissing your Gods killers &^%$!
Well to be honest it makes me feel happy when i see almost 2 billion Christians worshipping a Muslim man named Isa and i feel great about but its still against the will of Allah that you are worshiping His creation rather then Him!
Isa never said I am a God! Isa never said Worship me! Isa never said i brought you a religion called Christianity! Isa didn't have any time to say any of these but only he said do not worship other than ALLAH!
Read Quran one more time but this time do not read it like Salman Rushdie did it! because if Quran was the book that was written by seytan (devil) then the seytan (devil ) would not curse himself in every page of the Quran! can you write a book and curse yourself in your own book and then sell it and say this book was written by Rob?
use your brian not hearth because you are too emotional!
[I replied:] I thought you said your last email would be your last? You're so full of deception that you've lost all credibility with me. You need forgiveness, but first you need to understand that the All-Holy Judge finds you guilty. You need a Savior to pay for all your sins.
You don't understand that my God is more powerful than you're thinking. He's so powerful that He could take on any sort of weak attachment He wants to show up. He did that in the weak man Jesus, and then died for your sins. Islam, contrary to all the evidence and all New Testament scholars, denies that Jesus even died.
Again, I've already shown you where Jesus claimed to be God, but you're too blind to deal with it.