Dialogue with a Muslim
I had a great conversation about the Lord with my Black Xfinity/Comcast serviceman named Chris. Since he’s Black and we don’t have too many Blacks out here in Utah and since I’m doing my doctoral dissertation on Mormonism’s perennial racism problem, I asked him if he was LDS or ever was LDS. He said, “No,” so I told him why I asked, and we talked about racism for a bit. He said racism was much more overt in Tennessee where he’s from.
I then asked if he was a Christian. He said that he was a Muslim, but had grown up Baptist until a teen. He said he left due to the hypocrisy he saw. I thought he was talking about the people, but he was actually talking about the confusion of Christian doctrine on the Trinity and Jesus being the Son of God. He quoted John 5:30 on how Jesus could do nothing but please the one who sent him. I told Chris that if he looked back up to verses 18 through 23, it is clear that Jesus is also identified as equal to God and Jesus is to be honored just as the Father is. So Chris went back to how confusing that is. I told him it wasn’t confusing to me.
I explained the Trinity to him by saying how the Bible teaches there’s only one God, but yet the Father is called God in 1 Pet. 1:2, the Son is called God in Jn. 1:1-3, 14 and 20:28, and the Holy Spirit is called God in Acts 5:3-4, and yet the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all different from each other as the baptism of Jesus and his prayers to the Father show. He’s one God eternally in 3 different, inseparable persons.
Chris used many of the same replies that are common by those in the cults. He continued to assume the Trinity was modalistic (the persons are actually the same person with different names), so I explained to him why that’s not the Trinity. He said the term “Trinity” is not found in the Bible and even “Jesus’” name didn’t have a “J” in it. So I explained the differences between syntax (terms) and semantics (meaning) and told him that the semantics are still there. He quibbled about all the various translations, so I explained to him how there are a billion ways with syntax to say the same thing (semantics).
He said Deut. 18:18 was talking about the prophet to come, and that was referring to Muhammad. I told him Christians have always assumed that referred to Jesus. I then told him about how Chris has now devalued Jesus. Chris had a hard time understanding that as well, since he really honored all the prophets of God, especially Jesus. So I tried to explain how it is proper to devalue men in comparison to God, but I’m not sure Chris was getting what I was saying.
I told him that I think he now has a false Jesus, a false god, and a false prophet. Then I gave Chris my website: MuhammadLied.Info. He couldn’t believe I had a whole website devoted to this!
He said he was impressed that I was able to pull religion out of him, since he hardly ever talks about it. He had a bad experience with an LDS friend who once he found out Chris was Muslim, he dropped him like a hot potato. I asked Chris if I could give him a book. He said, “Sure,” so I went to get Nabeel Qureshi’s Seeking Allah, Finding Jesus. Chris said that he would read it. He mentioned some debate between a Christian and Muslim on YouTube, so I asked if I could give him my card with my email on it for him to send it to me. He again said, “Sure.” So I gave that to him as well, which has all my websites on it. Please pray for Chris!
CharisBlogs
I wrote two blogs that had far and beyond all Likes I’ve ever gotten before. The first was “Evangelizing a Mormon Girl Through My Daughter” and the second was “A Simple Proof That the Book of Mormon is Not the Word of God.” The only push back I got from the first is how I should leave kids alone, but applying the Golden Rule, I don’t mind someone doing this to my kids. It’s a good opportunity to talk theology with them. There was also very little pushback on my second blog. Many LDS simply assume there are errors not just in the Book of Mormon, but also the Bible, so they fail to make the connection that something cannot literally be God’s word if there are errors in it.
MeetTheExMormons.org
Please check our site out for pictures and video from last month. We were blessed to have Mike and Keri Delgado from our church come and share their wonderful testimony.
GivingTuesday Fundraiser
For our GivingTuesday Fundraiser, we raised $3,248! Our goal was $1,500, so, praise the Lord, we more than doubled it! Furthermore, since Facebook was matching up to $8 million just on November 30th, we may receive some more than that! I won’t know about that until January. Please keep us in mind for our Year-End Fundraiser. Thank you again!
We Need Your Partnership!
We not only need your prayers, but we need your financial partnership as well. Keep in mind that your investment is not simply for us, but for the lives of others we reach with the gospel. The standard way to financially invest is by writing a tax-deductible check to Courageous Christians United (CCU). For more information on various ways to invest in this ministry, including online giving, please see our “Invest” page on our sites. Please keep in mind we have no financial guarantees each month. Ministry partners come and go. If you’re not a partner and are blessed by these monthly updates, please consider joining our team and let us know soon. We’d love to be your missionaries here in Utah. Many thanks to those of you who hold us up in prayer and/or in your financial giving!
We expect God to provide for our needs through you. Why? Because the Bible is clear: “the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel” (1 Cor. 9:14).
Be strong and courageous (Joshua 1:6)!
Rob Sivulka
President, Courageous Christians United
P.O. Box 1374
West Jordan, UT 84088
(801) 792-6373 (leave voice message or text)
MormonInfo.org
MeetTheExMormons.org
JWinfo.org
MuhammadLied.Info
AbortionIsMurder.Info
Mailbag
:-)Great meetings, wonderful ministry for years !
Wonderful bonding.
Always treasure the evening traveling up years ago from Utah Country, to Rob & Tara's.
We are in an incredible moment.
____________
And there are adding deleting almost 4000 changes to the [o]riginal Bom
the latest?
in the introduction to the bom, it used to read...and these lamanites,and they are the principal ancestors of the American Indians
the new edition now read about these lamanites...and they are AMONG the principal ancestors of the American Indians
the word AMONG is not in the Original 1830 Bom
this additional word becones part of the 4000+ changes,additions deletions Why?
can you explain these added word?
I know why this word was added
I will tell you on my next text
[I replied:] As for the "principal ancestors," they'll say that technically that Introduction isn't inspired and was later added by the Church that isn't infallible.
_____________
Have any of you really taken the time to read the Bible? If so then you would know that GOD said everyone has free agency to go where they want as long as they believe in him and only him. What kind of Christian church would teach against another? Also if you have read the Book of Mormon we are warned of the Devils church. These so called churches just pop up out of nowhere. Once you are Christian you remain Christian there is no such thing as re-born. You can be re-born or saved on your judgement day.
______________
LDS Temples built in the South, they use christian songs to cater the evangelical churches and community. What deception!
______________
Dear Rob,
You are no better than the mob that assassinated The Prophet of The Restoration of Christ's True Church, Joseph Smith. You do not kill the body but you assassinate the spirits of those who believe your lies. You are like the pastors who led the mob. You claim to follow Jesus but you follow Satan! I don't have time to read your lies and those of your fellow antichrists, because when you attack Jesus' True Church, The Church of Jesus Christ, you attack Jesus. Following Satan is not Christian. You and other fellow antichrists, such as Saints Alive for Satan and Utah Darkhouse Ministry and Ex-Mormons for Satan must be opposed by The Holy Ghost. Words alone will not do. If I refute one lie, you will invent others. Do you know why leaders say to avoid you Satan worshippers? Because you lead people astray. It is a waste of time to talk to you. I learned on my mission that talking to followers of Ed Decker's Godmakers lies was useless. I wasted 3 hours listening to a group of them. Never again did I do so. I just bore my truthful testimony and left them to their perdition, as I will to you. You are of the devil and you are doing the devil's work. And you claim not to do so. But when you attack The Prophet Joseph Smith, you attack Jesus Christ himself!!!
I know without a doubt that I belong to Jesus' True Church. Jesus leads and guides His Church and The Prophet Russell M Nelson is his Living Prophet. The Book of Mormon is The Word of God and was written to prepare us against Korihors like you, Ed Decker, Jerald and Sandra Tanner and others of your ilk. His ancestor John Tanner must be deeply ashamed with Jerald. John gave his all to Jesus's Church. Jerald gave his all to tear It down. It's too late for him. It may be too late for Sandra, she may be "past feeling" like Laman and Lemuel. Are you past feeling? Can you no longer feel The Holy Ghost? I called Sandra to repentance but she didn't listen. Never again will I go to her Dark House/Devil's Bookstore. Once was enough. She had lead plates to show Joseph Smith could not carry Gold Plates. If Christ will make our burdens light, surely He could make the plates light, giving Joseph Super Strength, whether they weighed 200 lbs or 2,000,000 pounds. Furthermore, they may have weighed 60 pounds. Pure gold is too soft to preserve plates for 2,600 years. If rings must be alloys to survive a lifetime, then probably the Gold Plates had to be an alloy, possibly with copper, abundant in The Great Lakes area, or maybe silver as well. So, Nephi might have started The Gold Plates in Bountiful or used some of the gold and Laban stole from he and his brothers. The particulars don't matter. So, I ask of you, will you Come Unto Christ and His Church, the ONLY True and Living on the earth at this time, even The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, or will you continue to fight against It, for your lord and master Lucifer? I fear you will stay but if you do Come unto Christ's Church, then you need to spend the rest of your days recovering those you lead astray, like Alma The Younger. It's up to you. Will you be Saved and Exalted or will you be cast into Hell, Outer Darkness. You may be a son of Perdition already. You may be so invested in the devil that you will never listen. If you are, I am sorry for you.
Sincerely, in love, for your salvation and exaltation, or would you rather have God and what he will cast you into the pits of Hell,
PS. Don't fear me, I will do nothing to you. Fear God and what He will do unto you. I LEAVE YOU IN GOD'S HANDS. PLEASE REPENT BEFORE IT IS EVERLASTINGLY TOO LATE, THE NIGHT OF DARKNESS IN WHICH YOU CAN DO NO WORK.☹😢
_____________
Nice responses to those questions at the end there. I have been brushing up on their claim to apostasy and restoration. Thanks for the info
____________
What makes Mormonism a cult/false religion?
[I replied:] it pretends to be a restoration of the only true Christian Church while denying the essential doctrines of the Christian faith that it breaks off from. That's how we define it. You are welcome to define it however you'd like.
[He replied:] what would be the essential doctrines?
[I replied:] God is the creator of everything outside Himself, He is eternally Triune, He revealed Himself to humanity in His special revelation through prophets and finally His Son as taught by His apostles, we are sinners who have God's wrath abiding on us until we accept the Lamb of God's sacrifice for us, Jesus rose again in the same body that died, yet glorified, and that we must daily trust in Him to rule our lives and make us into the people He intends us to be. That is what C.S. Lewis called "Mere Christianity," since it is held by all branches of the historic Christian faith: Orthodox, Catholic, and Protestant.
[He replied:] "God is the creator of everything outside Himself"
What does "created" mean?
"He is eternally Triune"
What does Truine mean?
"He revealed Himself to humanity in His special revelation through prophets and finally His Son as taught by His apostles"
Ending with the apostles? Why?
"We are sinners who have God's wrath abiding on us until we accept the Lamb of God's sacrifice for us"
Ok
"Jesus rose again in the same body that died, yet glorified, and that we must daily trust in Him to rule our lives and make us into the people He intends us to be."
Ok
"That is what C.S. Lewis called "Mere Christianity," since it is held by all branches of the historic Christian faith: Orthodox, Catholic, and Protestant."
Ok
[I replied:] Create means bring about, so everything that exists outside of God is because of Him. He is sovereign over everything outside Himself. If there's something that exists outside God, then God is devalued as not being sovereign over it. As such, there is only one God or creator of everything else outside Himself.
Triune means this one God or creator eternally exists in 3 different, distinct, but inseparable persons: F, S, and HS.
The revelation of God through His prophets unfolded in the Old Testament and was completed in His Son, the final revelation. That's what Luke 16:16 and Hebrews 1:1-2 teach. Jesus is the final word of God. That doesn't entail that God doesn't continue to speak today. Most of the Church continues to believe He does. He does through His Son, but the standard, the foundation has been set (Eph. 2:20). Everything is judged by this foundation, and if anything goes against it, then it is rejected.
[He replied:] is the concept of this triune God laid out in scripture?
Do those passages limit all scripture to the Bible?
[I replied:] These are great questions! As for the Triune God, here's a simple case. 1st, the Bible teaches only one true God or Creator of all things outside Himself (Gen. 1:1; Ps. 96:4-5; Isa. 43:10, 44:6, 8, and 24; Jn. 1:1-3, 17:3; Rom. 9:5; 1 Cor. 8:6; Col. 1:13-18). 2nd, the Father is referred to as this God (e.g., 1 Pet. 1:2). 3rd, the Son is referred to as this God (e.g., Jn. 1:1-3, 14, 20:28; Rom. 9:5; 1 Cor. 8:6; Col. 1:13-18; Tit. 2:13). 4th, the Spirit is referred to as this God (Gen. 1:2; Acts 5:3-4). 5th, all have equal authority (Matt. 28:19). 6th, they are clearly different persons, not simply different titles that are held by 1 person (e.g., the baptism of Jesus, the prayers of Jesus, Jn. 1:1-3 and 17:1-5). So the 3 different persons eternally and inseparably are the only Creator there is.
As far as the scriptures limiting to the Bible, I don't think that's necessarily so. It does limit the Bible to the message of the prophets and apostles. So for example, most New Testament scholars are aware that there was another letter written to the church in Corinth. If that was ever found, then it probably would be included in the Bible. That is all different from the Spirit of Jesus speaking through someone with a gift of prophecy today to meet a particular need. That prophecy would be subject to the canon of the Bible, and would not be intended to add to the faith once for all delivered to the saints as Jude 3 says.
|
