Rob with McKay and CameronLDS hold this conference the first weekend of April and of October at their Conference Center in downtown Salt Lake City. It’s a great opportunity to get the word out to literally thousands of LDS.
The picture to the right shows me talking to two guys—Cameron and McKay—outside the conference center during Conference and reading D&C 82:7 to them, which says, “And now, verily I say unto you, I, the Lord, will not lay any sin to your charge; go your ways and sin no more; but unto that soul who sinneth shall the former sins return, saith the Lord your God.” They had no idea about this. McKay (immediately next to my left) was playing the doing one's best card, so I gave them their late Prophet Kimball's statement that "Trying Is Not Sufficient" and then this D&C passage, as well as other Book of Mormon passages. Keep in mind that the Book of Mormon says that God can't save one in their sins (Alma 11:37). The point was that Mormonism offers an impossible gospel and is really no good news at all. I had an awesome two hours with these guys during the entire afternoon session. They were trying to get free tickets to get into Conference from those going inside, but the guys never got tickets. Instead, the guys stood next to me and heard me preach to the crowd lined up waiting to get into the Conference Center for about twenty minutes before we began talking.
My friend and former LDS, David Bartosiewicz, came by about an hour into it and gave them a ton more to think about. They both took the Jesus Christ/Joseph Smith DVD after I prayed for them and another guy, Massah, who came by about an hour into talking to Cameron and McKay.
Massah, who also took the DVD, was raised LDS, but just doesn't buy it anymore. I gave him reasons to follow Jesus and explained the whole gospel to him as well as more problems with Mormonism. He was really open, but didn't know what was holding him back from receiving Christ.
Cameron and McKay both have their mission calls and will report this month. The former heads to Tampa, FL and the latter to Buenos Aires. They realize that they're about to start talking to a whole bunch more Christians where they are going, so they appreciated the "crash course" and DVD.
Rob with Milton--an LDS guy from Venzuela who wanted his picture with him.In addition, I talked to another LDS guy right after I got done preaching to the crowd and before I began talking to all these guys. This other LDS guy also was standing right next to me trying to get tickets. I was shocked to hear the same thing I heard a week and a half prior from another LDS guy, viz., he appreciated me being out there, because it shows my concern. I hardly ever hear this from LDS! This guy sympathized with me, since he was a Returned Missionary, who served in Italy.
LDS continued to tell me that I'm wasting my time preaching outside General Conference. I was able to beg thousands upon thousands to not be afraid, not be too prideful, not to stick their heads in the sand, but just get another point of view by going to www.JosephLied.com. So here are the stats. Friday, the day before I went out, I had 188 total visits; 40 for Utah. Saturday, I had 314 total; 89 for UT. Sunday, I had 350 total; 100 for UT. LDS who say I'm simply wasting my time are either: 1) ignorant, 2) lying, or 3) simply speaking autobiographically!
Here are the videos I took during the weekend:
Kevin Deegan Singing and Preaching at LDS General Conference
Dancing, Singing, and Preaching Outside LDS General Conference
Kevin Deegan Preaching to LDS Priestood Holders
Christian Kevin and LDS Arnold
Rob Sivulka Preaches Outside LDS Conference Center
Rob Sivulka Preaching to LDS Priesthood Holders.
Minus the Bad
A Christian web ministry called Minus the Bad asked me to make a video for them on “Differences Between Mormonism and Christianity.” It was posted last month, and may be viewed at the bottom of this page.
Meet the ExMormons Fellowship
We had Norm Godfrey share his story with our group. You may watch the video here and see the pictures here.
Shawn McCraney Update
Some of you may recall early last year when Pastor Jason Wallace and I publicly confronted Shawn McCraney for promoting the heresy of modalism. McCraney is a former LDS, who started a TV show that primarily attacked Mormonism. However, in recent years, he has been also attacking traditional Christianity. He kept denying the charge of modalism, but as of last month, he is now calling himself a "committed modalist." So there's no question now that we were right and McCraney was wrong. Again, modalism is heresy and he isn't a brother in Christ. To see the video Wallace put together clearly demonstrating McCraney’s confusion over this subject, see here.
With a demon on his left and a devil on his right, Elder Sivulka was in good company.I greeted trick or treaters as Elder Sivulka and gave them candy with the Spencer W. Kimball million dollar bills (see them at the bottom of www.themiracleofforgiveness.com) or Jesus Christ/Joseph Smith DVDs. Kids loved the bills... until they and they're folks read them! Here’s a note we had posted to our front door the next morning along with two of the bills.
I respect everyone's religeous [sic] opinions regardless of thier [sic] stance. It doesn't matter if it's anti-LDS, pro-LDS, atheist, or other opinion. All opinions, in my view, are welcome and respected. But Halloween is never an appropriate time to push any personal or religeous [sic] propoganda [sic] to young children who are out trick-or-treating. This was very tasteless in my opinion and I hope you choose more appropriate opportunities in the future to share your religeous [sic] views and push your propogranda [sic].
We Need Your Partnership!
We not only need your prayers, but we need your financial assistance as well. Keep in mind that your investment is not simply for us, but for the lives of others we reach with the gospel. The standard way to financially invest is by writing a check to Courageous Christians United (CCU). For more information on various ways to invest in this ministry, including online giving, please see our “Invest” page on any of our sites. Please keep in mind we have no financial guarantees each month. Ministry partners come and go. If you’re not a partner, please consider joining our team and let us know soon. We’d love to be your missionaries here in Utah. Many thanks to those of you who hold us up in prayer and in your financial giving!
We expect God to provide for our needs through you. Why? Because the Bible is clear: “the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel” (1 Cor. 9:14).
President, Courageous Christians United
P.O. Box 1374
West Jordan, UT 84081
****ADDITIONAL PRAYER REQUESTS****
1. Health and protection for our whole family
2. Tara’s family to be saved
3. Wisdom in all our dealings
4. Strength to keep going
Shout out to SLC's local town crier / Elijah, Rob Sivulka. He does evangelism uniquely in a way suited to his calling. If you knew him as a friend, you would love him. Every city needs its own John the Baptist. Rob is our's. When Rob says, "REPENT!", he makes my flesh squirm, and challenges my cowardice and love for the praise of man, but the last thing I want to hear at final judgment is Jesus chastising me for not standing up for him or for not associating myself with him. Thank you, Jesus, for Rob.
LDS: "Do you believe in a dead Christ or a resurrected Christ?"
Me: "Like all Christians, I believe in a resurrected Christ who lovingly died on the cross to pay my debt of sin completely."
LDS: "Then why the sign of the cross? To remind everyone that he died? Why not pictures of him to remind everyone that he lives?"
Me: "Why not both?"
LDS: "You have not answered my question."
Me: "Yes, the sign of the cross is to remind everyone of His death and pictures of Him alive remind everyone of His life. You have not answered my question. Why not both?"
LDS: "It just doesn't make sense in my Christina mind to have a cross. I don't need to have a cross to remember that He died. I have the scriptures for that. I mean if people are not reading their scriptures then thats there own fault."
Me: "Sure, but then why have any pictures or symbols to remind you or others?"
LDS: "I guess it just depends on how you really want to remember Him. Thanks for the chat!"
Me: "Any time! I think we have some reason from God why the symbol of the cross is important to remember... Communion or what LDS call the sacrament. Further, the symbol was also important enough for not only the 1st century church, but also early Mormonism utilized it. I'm assuming you're LDS."
Me: "Are you all right with all the Satanic/Masonic pentagrams and other symbols on LDS buildings?"
LDS: "Like what? Give me your point of view. Pray tell."
You might also like watching this video a buddy of mine did: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etObSvihwy4."
LDS: "Before I watch that video, who supports your explaining of these things? Who are the people in charge of making these websites?"
Me: "Like I said, the guy who made the video is a buddy of mine: David Bartosiewicz. The individual who made http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/masonicsymbolsandtheldstemple.htm
is another friend of mine: Sandra Tanner. I have seen most of these symbols on LDS buildings, so I can testify of their truthfulness."
LDS: "So in other words you're asking me to trust man and not the spirit?"
Me: "Why did you write me for information then? Maybe the Spirit is using me to help you out. God has given you a mind and He expects you to use it. If you don't "test all things and hold fast to what is good" (1 Thes. 5:21), then you are simply not obeying God and are unworthy. If you really have the truth, then you don't have anything to fear. Your God will help you think through these things. So please be a little open-minded and see what I have to say by checking out those links I sent you."
LDS: "Well thanks for your time. It has been an entertaining conversation. You have a good day. Let me leave you with my testimony. I know the LDS teachings to be true because of the spiritual confirmations I've had in my life. I know that God loves all his children, so much to send his Only Begotten to help us and become a way for us to live with Him again. These things I know to be true and I testify with all my heart so that you may receive some spiritual enlightenment. And I share that with you In the name of Jesus Christ. Amen.
You're right. I have found the truth. So I'm stinking with it. Why did I ask you for information? I wanted to see what info you could provide but your intent isn't to give information your intent is to prove the Mormons wrong. I don't like that attitude. Thank you for your time."
Me: "So why do I see all these Satanic and Masonic symbols on LDS buildings like the temple and Church History Museum in downtown Salt Lake City?
Just perhaps you're deceived about the LDS Church and you really don't know after all. After all, the Bible says, "There's a way that seems right to a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death" (Prov. 14:12). Your good feeling is leading you to hell.
Seems to me that you're scared of the truth and really don't want to know. The best explanation why LDS have gotten rid of the symbol of the cross is because they are perishing as the Apostle Paul says in 1 Cor. 1:18. So instead they put symbols up that are really reflective of their religion.
And you're right... you are "stinking" with your truth. ;)"
Unimpressed with your website
…I'm a Mormon if you couldn't guess by the subject line of the e-mail. I had a friend on Facebook post one of your videos with the cartoon missionaries and after watching it I decided to visit the website. After spending some time there I just wanted to write to and make mention that it probably isn't fair to present doctrine of Latter Day Saints incorrectly. If you're going to list all your accreditation and resume on all your accomplishments at least use correct doctrine when explaining your points about what the Mormons believe especially when comparing to other Christian faiths.
I spent my mission in South Carolina and talked to many pastor, priests and heads of other various Christian denominations discussing the bible and the many interpretations therein. As I read the information on your website where you make the comparisons on certain doctrinal points, I thought they were lacking on not only the LDS side but the Christianity side too. Obviously I do not feel it's fair to call Latter Day Saints non Christians, but at least draw the line realistically.
For example the doctrine of being saved. Both mainstream Christianity and the Mormons believe that we are saved through and by Jesus Christ. The only difference is Mormons believe in order to be clean you must repent of your sins and the atonement of Jesus Christ makes up for the rest, but it is only through Jesus Christ we can be made clean.
Either way I guess I'm not really here to dispute doctrine, but to really just see what your motivation is for making a website like this and using either completely incorrect doctrine to make a point or just twisting it to lose full meaning of what Mormons believe. There's always the chance that you fully know this information and still present in such a degrading way, and if you do that wouldn't be very Christ-like of you either. At least when I was on my mission talking to the good Christians in South Carolina there was almost always a level of respect and we could walk away from a meeting knowing we (the missionaries) and investigators were both Christians. Lastly the question I really have is why? Why go through all this effort? Is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints directly from the devil in your eyes and a plague to the world? Is it so bad that you have to go out of your way and risk your name and your credentials? If it is, that's cool and I get it. I guess I was just really curious is all. Well I'm sure you get these e-mails all the time and I would be surprised if you read this. Either way all I ask is that you at least consider us Christians. It drives me bonkers when people don't think we believe in Jesus Christ.
[I replied:] A former LDS missionary put that video together and simply used our site to point people to it.
Of course I realize that LDS hold they are saved through Jesus. I said under the section of "What is divine salvation?": "In one sense, salvation is universal immortality and resurrection by grace alone, and is given to everyone except apostates. In another sense, salvation is eternal life or exaltation into the highest kingdom. The latter is dependent on grace through faith and one's works (2 Ne. 25:23; D&C 76:40-4; and Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 669-71, and 746)." So I acknowledge LDS hold Jesus' grace as they define it to save them. Further, the next couple sections on my Home page chart of differences speak of Christ's atonement as LDS understand it, so there's no reason to think that I've misunderstood what LDS teach regarding Christ's role in their salvation.
Do you have another example of me not fairly representing LDS doctrine?
I've talked to too many LDS and former LDS, who have affirmed that I'm fairly representing LDS doctrine. So unless you can cite another example, I'll keep listening to what they have to say.
The problem for you is how I have disagreed with what LDS hold concerning Jesus' involvement in our salvation. I hold that He paid it all, and it is received through faith, which means repenting. However, for us, that repenting is never perfected in this life and we don't trust at all in our good works, which LDS scripture is clear are *necessary* to make God accept one into the celestial kingdom. We reject that, since the Bible is clear that our works have nothing to do with it (Eph. 2:8-9) and they are all filthy rags anyway (Isa. 64:6). You may not agree with this and the way I laid it out on the Home page chart ofMormonInfo.org, but I'm still fairly distinguishing what LDS and the Bible teaches.
To put it simply, you think Jesus' work was only a *necessary* condition whereas we think it was a *sufficient* condition. So because I have received His work as an act of grace, I've been made new. My sins are forgiven. I am adopted into His family. There is no reason whatsoever to think that I don't have access to God and His kingdom. Therefore I'm assured I'm going to the celestial kingdom immediately upon my death. You don't have that hope and peace with God, because you've still got to do "all that you can do" as 2 Ne. 25:23 says and deny yourself all ungodliness and love God with everything as Moroni 10:32 says.
Now obviously I've have gone to all the work I have into MormonInfo.org, because I believe Mormonism is of the devil and it's leading people like you to hell. If I didn't think that, I'd be simply wasting my time. So I have created the site in order to call you to repent of your false god, false Jesus, false Holy Spirit, false gospel, and false scriptures given by false prophets. It's as simple as that, and I pray you wake up before it's too late, so you can be assured of spending eternity with me in the celestial kingdom.
Thanks for writing!
I just listened to the interview you had with beyond extraordinary with Natalina. Is very important to know about the most influential cults today. My prayer is for God to continue blessing you and the ministry.
Take this site down! Your arguments and explanations are a joke and weak to say the least..I can "question" all the crap on the this site just as it is claimed to question the LDS faith.
God bless you, Rob. I'm praying for you. I pray for Mormons as well so they have courage and strength to listen to the real gospel.
Blessings to you my thick skinned brother. Always admire the way you and Aaron evangelize when I see you guys. Awesome to partner with you every year in small ways.
I was just reading some of the information on your site and it left me wondering some things.
1. I've been to far too many funerals and I often here people talk about families re-united in heaven, but that is not supported by a pure biblical doctrine. Do you believe in re-united families and what is the source of your information?
2. Where in the Bible does it say to essentially worship the cross? You refer to 1st century archaeology having crosses but then ignore everything taught by the apostles prior to the Nicea conference with regard to the Trinity. Have you read the writings of Origen?
3. If you have not learned of Christ or had a chance to accept him and be saved by Grace and you die. Do you go to heaven or hell?
4. What do you do for eternity after death?
5. You espouse a beginning and no end. You say that GOD created all things. Therefore you believe that GOD created evil. How can an infinitely good being create evil?
[I replied:] 1) Earthly families may be reunited in heaven provided they are part of the family of God (Mk. 3:31-35, Jn. 1:12, 3:16, 14:1-6, Gal. 4:5-7, and Eph. 1:5). However, broad is the path that ends up in hell (Mat. 7:13-4).
2) I never claimed that Christians are instructed to worship anyone other than God (Mat. 4:10). However, Paul does claim, "God forbid lest I boast in anything but the cross of Christ" (Gal. 6:14). The cross is the symbol of how life is to be lived for the follower of Christ, who willing laid down His life for us (Lk. 9:23-24).
I haven't read the writings of Origen except for quotes here and there. He was later declared a heretic, but other Christians have sought to exonerate him: e.g., http://marccortez.com/2010/05/15/if-you-think-origen-was-a-heretic-you-might-be-one/. I know the issue revolves around what exactly was entailed by his subordinationism. I haven't made my mind up about Origen. Granted that possible exception, the Apostles as well as Church Fathers prior to Nicea held there was only 1 God who eternally existed in 3 Persons. http://www.equip.org/article/faith-of-our-fathers-part-1/. I have made up my mind that the Bible clearly teaches there's 1 God, the creator of all that is (Isa. 43:10 and 44:24), the Father is this God (1 Pet. 1:2), the Son is this God (Jn. 1:1-3, 18, 1 Cor. 8:6, and Heb. 1:5-14), and the Spirit is this God (Gen. 1:2 and Acts 5:3-4).
3) Well people are held responsible for what they know. Romans 1 is clear that God's given a knowledge of Himself through the things that are made so that they are without excuse. Yet they hate God and suppress the truth in unrighteousness. The obvious assumption is that this refers to those who can in fact receive knowledge. Thus, for example, babies don't go to hell if they die since they don't know Christ.
4) I get to be with Christ. I know I'll judge angels (1 Cor. 6:3) and I'll rule with Him (Rev. 3:21). I'll continue to progress in my knowledge throughout eternity without ever reaching omnipotence as only the Creator possesses. I trust my Lord with the rest of it knowing that eye hath not seen or ear hath heard what He's prepared for me (1 Cor. 2:9).
5) I take Augustine's view that evil isn't a substantial thing. It's a privation. It's spoiled goodness brought about through free will.
Hey Rob, I just read your email and it was encouraging to read that you take many opportunities to evangelize. It was a shot in the arm. Thank you for the good ideas and even being willing to confront gay couples holding hands. Is that now a civil rights issue and could it be considered hate speech to boldly confront them in their sin? Again, thank you for your testimony.
[I replied:] It can't be a civil rights issue or there would be too many preachers locked up by now. Even if it's construed as hate speech, there's no law against free speech in this country. They'd also have to lock us up for telling anyone else to repent... including my own kids! :)